Clemens says he was not at the party at Cansecos. His nanny says there was no party. Now photos of the party have surfaced showing Roger there. McNamee always comes up right. Roger could be in real legal trouble now.
An eleven year old (at that time) took the pictures of his “then” heroes. Now he’s turned them over as evidence. There’s a fall from grace for you.
I was (at first) willing to give him the benefit of the doubt (despite the fact that he’s an ass), but it’s clear now he’s a lying cheat. There’s no way McNamee injected his wife with hGH without him knowing it. To believe that lie is just stupid.
The overwhelming problem with today’s athletes is that they are spoiled pompous jerks who don’t understand that the rules apply to them.
Pete Rose, after swearing for years he never bet baseball, finally admits that he DID, but it’s ok because always bet the Reds to win. Marion Jones swore up and down she didn’t juice, but now,oops, please don’t send me to jail for lying to a grand jury, I have kids…
Now it’s the Rocket’s turn and I hope for his sake he cuts a deal fast and pleads out, because otherwise he is going to do time.
Off to The Game Room. Off, I say!
That was sort of mentioned at the trial- Rog’s all of a sudden tried to get in contact with the nanny who he hadn’t seen in seven years when he found out she said she was there, as was Rog. When asked why he would try to contact a witness would would conflict his testimony, Rog said (sic) “I was tryin’ to help ya’ll”?
What’s stupid is that his presence there doesn’t necessarily prove anything at all, but it does increase McNamee’s credibility. There was no need to lie about being at a party, doing so just makes Rog look worse. He first said he couldn’t have been there- he was golfing that day, and can prove it! Unless you were golfing for the full 24 hrs. it proves nothing, and besides, where did it turn out Rog golfed that day- at the course adjacent to Canseco’s house- d’oh! :smack:
McNamee and Conseco have been found to be truthful over and over.
I don’t see how some are painting McNamee out to be a bad guy at all in this- he thought Rog was untrustworthy and kept stuff to protect himself should Roger turn on him and or lie, and Roger did both. Why are you a bad guy from protecting yourself from a liar and a worm?
Except Canseco swore a deposition that Roger wasn’t at the party. I guess he didn’t expect photos, Maybe someone should see if Canseco suddenly got any big new investors in his assinine movie project.
Bow-chicka-WOW…
Clemens’s entire defense has been stupid, stupid beyond belief. I mean, the guy lies about not being at a party when there were people taking pictures of him?
Like anything else, the problem is that once you’re caught lying and you don’t tell the whole truth immediately, you prevaricate even a little, you’re never trusted again. Rose is a perfect example; he was caught red handed, and chose to lie, and lie, and lie some more. I bet on baseball, no I didn’t, well maybe I did but not on the Reds, well maybe on the Reds but every night, well maybe not every night but always to win. (In between those lies, I believe he was also the end source for the phony 2003 story that he was being let back into baseball.) I think it’s just as likely that he bet on the Reds to lose as not, because there’s simply not one iota of evidence that he can be trusted.
If Rose had come ou in 1989 and said “Look, I have been betting on baseball, on my team. I have a gambling problem, and I admit it. I accept my banishment and I will seek counselling, and in five years, if I feel I have this beat, perhaps then I will ask for reinstatement. Until then, I think it’s best for the sort I love that I not be in a position to damage it” you wouldn’t have millions of people (like me) thinking he’s a slimeball and he might be in the Hall of Fame. Instead, he’s a slimeball and he’s not in the Hall of Fame. Holding out for years just caused him to lose any hope of being trusted.
It’s the same with Clemens. Andy Pettite has admitted he used HGH and apologized, and the general consensus right now is “Well, okay.” Clemens, on the other hand, has lied again and again and hasn’t really even lied well, and has now poisoned everything he will ever say on the subject again. Had he admitted it before all this shit came rolling downhill, I think people would be able to move on.
Of course “should have done X a long time ago” is pretty much the entire story of baseball and steroids, isn’t it?
I think a lot of it is that he just strikes me as being stupidity and arrogance. Clemens really was a great pitcher, and he worked hard at it, but at some point he just became too far separated from humility and honesty to see that he couldn’t just do anything and expect to avoid scrutiny. You would think, looking from the outside in, that someone like Clemens would KNOW he’s being watched, that there are records and pictures and people who remember things he did because of who he is. I struggle to understand how someone in his position couldn’t know that he cannot get away with things that someone like me could, because Roger Clemens is memorable and documented, and RickJay is not. But apparently part of becoming memorable is also losing your sense of being a member of society, losing the understanding that people will notice you being a jerk.
Proof of a recent large payment from Rog to Canseco would be sublime.
I’m not in any way defending Clemens. But it strikes me as creepy and suspect that you’d hold on to gauze and needles from so many years ago because you supposedly thought your friend and client was untrustworthy. To me, it seems more like he thought he might have been able to make money off of the “memorabilia” someday.
ESPN says he must get indicted now. Perjury is in the baseball cards now.
You know, dad. You have a boner against Roger Clemens.
He’s not “the bad guy,” but it’s pretty clear he is a sleaze. I think he’s telling the truth, and his version of what happened is the only one that makes sense. But since he’s testifying, his character is an issue. This is a guy who pretended to be a doctor, sold drugs to players illegally, and lost his job with the Yankees for allegedly drugging and raping a woman.
For the record, I think Canseco is dirt, too, even if he has been correct about parts of this steroid story. Strange how he changed his story about Clemens, isn’t it?
Anyway, between this and the possible DNA, Clemens is in even more trouble than he was before. He didn’t have to go to jail over any of this, either.
As the old saying goes: there is no honor among sleaze.
You say that because I said I thought he was on drugs years ago. Was I wrong? I did not have anything against him except he pretended to be a clean living good guy.
I don’t hold that against Roger. Do you really expect him to have said from day one, “Hey guys I’ve just started a steroid and HGH regimen so I can keep pitching into my old age.” So many people juiced and pretty much no one came clean prior to the last few years (Ken Caminiti is one example of someone who actually came clean that stands out in my mind), so I don’t hold the fact that Roger hid his use.
I’ve long had mixed feelings on Roger Clemens. When I first started following his career (when he was with the Red Sox) I just really was impressed with his ability. When he became a Yankee, as a life long Yankee fan I was very happy.
However, over the years the impression I got from scattered articles and scattered incidents was, that while Roger was definitely a work horse and a fine pitcher, he was a bit of an asshole. The whole hurling the baseball-bat at Mike Piazza stands out in my mind.
I remember at one point in the early '00s I viewed Roger Clemens and Pedro Martinez as being two pitchers who gave off the “asshole” vibe. Both had a habit of throwing at batters when they got angry. Incidentally both were in the American League and didn’t have to worry about getting thrown at themselves.
Over the past few years Pedro’s image has been enhanced in my mind, and I genuinely believe Pedro when he says he was dominating baseball without the use of PEDs. He’s one person I’ve never heard anything about as far as that is concerned.
I’m no fan of the steroids in baseball–but my basic policy has been I hold my ire for the sport as a whole for letting things get to this point. Any ballplayer who immediately comes clean and issues a mea culpa, I have a moderate degree of respect for–I still believe their records are tarnished, but at least they are being men about it. As much flak as Jason Giambi got at the time, I honestly think he’s handled these issues better than most.
However when a player takes the path of continuing lying and obstinance, well then I’m going to grow a bit distasteful towards them.
Honestly, all these revelations make me wonder about where Roger now fits as a pitcher in this generation. The key thing in my opinion that Roger had over Greg Maddux has been his longevity, Roger has played better in old age. Well, now it looks like he’s been able to do that with the help of PEDs, whereas Maddux has not used them. I have even more respect for Greg Maddux now than I did before, I and honestly may consider him the best pitcher of this generation. I think Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez have to enter into that discussion as well.
He pissed away his hall of fame and not into a specimen jar. He has shaken belief that people had in him. They were so much his fans and now they feel betrayed.
True, McNamee is a sleaze, but that’s pretty normal in criminal investigations/trials. People get convicted every day on the testimony of sleazeballs. Drug dealers, Mafioso, bank robbers, etc. generally get convicted on the testimony of slimewad coconfederates making deals. The people who know where the bodies are buried usually aren’t nuns. It’s a deal with the devil that prosecutors routinely have to make.
Even though he’s a scuzzbucket, McNamee’s testimony has consistently panned out in this investigation. If it was his word alone, character might be an issue, but the testimony of Andy Pettite and now this complete box Rocket’s in with the photographic evidence of him at the party I think are going to render McNamee’s personal sleaziness all but moot.
Clemens better start talking to his lawyers about what kind of plea agreement will keep him out of prison because I don’t see how he can keep trying to brazen his way out of this. It’s not only the perjury but the real possibility of witness tampering.