roling your 'r's and Spanish

Factual Questions
1

I’ve decided I want to learn Spanish. I’m fed up with only knowing one language. It suddenly hit me a month ago that I can learn it. Just pick up a teach yourself book and do it! Quick, eh?

Anyway, I have one major problem. I cannot for the life of me roll my 'r’s! You know how the Spanish say things like “raro” but make it sound like “rrrrrrrarrrrrrro”? I just can’t do it! The tip of my tongue simply refuses to… what’s the word? Trill?

Everyone else in my family can do it and boy have they tried to teach me. I still can’t do it though. I’m just stuck!

So, my question is this. Will I sound stoopid trying to speak Spanish when I can’t even make the sounds? I think I’m pretty good with the accent otherwise… I just can’t get the 'r’s!

Cheers.

2

My recollection was that only the double 'r’s were rolled, but I’m not formally trained. Perhaps Sailor can help you with this one.

3

As chefguy said, that sample word you used would be spelled rrarro.

4

Double R and R at the beginning of a word should be rolled. But, I wouldn’t worry too much if you really can’t do it. Most Spanish speakers know that this is a sound foreigners often have trouble with, and they’ll understand what you’re saying even if you don’t roll it.

5

Like I said, I only thought of going ahead with it a month ago and raro was the only word I could think of begining with an r.

Here’s a better example: ?Puede repetire, por favor? Plenty of r’s in that one :wink:
As you can imagine, I think I sound pretty stoopid saying that! Guess I’m just bummed because I don’t want to sound like a ‘foreigner’, you know?

6

Yes, only rr is rolled. Pero (but) has a very weak r, as compared to perro (dog). An English speaker can get away with the thicker r there. It’s pronounced almost like the r in ‘party’.

My experience is that native Spanish speakers from around the world will forgive you the accent, and give you plus points for effort. They have a collective inferiority complex that Enlish is the lingua franca of the world and whenever forreigners learn their language, they feel pride.

Off hand, I can’t think about any word where not being able to roll the r would get confusing. From context, it’s pretty clear what you want to say.

A word of warning though - Spanish is quite easy at first, but pretty soon you will encounter the 512 irregular verbs, each with 64 different forms to learn. Many students give up at this point. A common question is: “But surely you don’t use the conjuntive?” Well yes, you do.

7

It was the subjunctive ‘tense’ that really put me off for a while. I thought I had all the tenses and moods mastered and then BAM! Profesora gives us a thick pile of worksheets with a front page labeled “Subjunctive.” But I just thought to myself that nearly all languages have a subjunctive mood and I got over it :wink:

8

I took Spanish in high school and college, but couldn’t roll my Rs until many years later. I just all of a sudden figured out how to do it. I can’t explain it.

9

A well known trabalenguas or tongue-twister used as a teaching tool in many Spanish speaking countries: Erre con erre, cigarro; erre con erre, barril; rápido ruedan los carros cargados del ferrocarril.

You have both the r and the rr sounds to practice with.

10

Thanks everyone!

I don’t care if it takes me 50 years, I AM gonna learn it!
I don’t know anything about verbs, nouns, tenses and what have you in English. Sounds like it should be fun when I get to that level in Spanish, hehe.

Revtim - You’ve given me hope! I may just wake up one day and be able to do roll my Rs!

CBEscapee - Thanks for that tongue-twister! That’ll keep me busy and my family wishing for quiet for years to come!

11

In raro, only the first r is rolled, the other one has the weak r.

In your second example, only the first r of repetir has the strong r, the rest are weak (but pronounced).

Note: Don’t worry about sounding as a foreigner. I, at least, prefer someone that tries and is not perfect to someone who either flaunts its knowledge all the time or decides he/she doesn’t care to even try.

12

Variation on the tongue-twister:

Ere con ere, barril,
Ere con ere, cigarros
Alla en el ferrocarril
Rapidos corren los carros

In other words, two single-r’s make a double-r in barril, same in cigarros.

The single r is more like our d than like our r. Try it as if you were saying “ehday con ehday”, and you get to say “barrrrril” as if you were imitating an engine, rrrrrrmmm rrrrrmm. And don’t forget the rrrrrapidos sound.

Makes a real distinction between the two sounds, and allows you to go crazy on the rrrrrrrrr. (Later in real conversation you don’t have to be quite so crazy on the rrr’s. Not quite.)

13

I got some news for ya: you are going to be sounding like a foreigner no matter how hard you try. The Spaniards will find it charming and attractive and that will be a point in your favor so I wouldn’t worry.

Let’s see if I can get the rules right because as soon as I write them I think of a word which doesn’t follow them

Single initial Rs are always rolled: rato, reto, rito, roto, rizo, robo.

Mid-word Rs (this is driving me nuts as I try to think of examples and deduce the rules)
After L, N, S, R, it rolls: alrededor, Enrique, perro, error. Robo (theft) is rolled - antirrobo (antitheft) is rolled.

After B, C, D, F, G, K, P, T the preceding letter forms syllable with the r, like in English: Brasil, crack, drama, Francia, grande, Krazy glue, presente, tránsito.

After a vowel: not rolled: araña, arena, arisco, erótico

After H J M Q V W X Y Z ( I cannot think of any examples but let’s say not rolled)

So, I would say an initial R or one following L, N, S, or R are rolled and the rest are not.
El Perro de San Roque no tiene rabo porque Ramón Ramírez se lo ha robado. (All rolled) This one is used to tease kids and all those who cannot roll their R’s. The French sound quite pathetic substituting a gutural sound. And while we are talking about tongue twisters, here’s another tongue twister (from Latin America). Try saying it fast. English ones are easy by comparison.

Compre poca capa parda,
porque el que poca capa parda compra
poca capa parda paga.
One I like in English, not so much because it is difficult, which it is not, but because when you say it fast no one knows what the hell you said:

What noise annoys a noisy oyster most?

the answer:

A noisy noise annoys a noisy oyster most.

14

Neither H, J, M, Q, W, X, Y or Z have combination sounds with r (or l) like B, C, D, F, G, T. So, it would probably be rolled, not unrolled, that is assuming such a word exists (and I don’t remember). At least in the case of Z it is. The name Azrael, the r is rolled. V would be treated the same way as B (if such word exists, and I cannot remember).

15

Neither H, J, M, Q, W, X, Y or Z have combination sounds with r (or l) like B, C, D, F, G, T. So, it would probably be rolled, not unrolled, that is assuming such a word exists (and I don’t remember). At least in the case of Z it is. The name Azrael, the r is rolled. V would be treated the same way as B (if such word exists, and I cannot remember).

16

Not all Spanish accents roll the ‘r’. A lot of Puerto Ricans I hear (I am not sure if this is the standard) give the ‘erre’ a sound with is sort of like a French ‘R’. I remember once hearing about a site in San Juan and thinking it was called “El Mojo”. It is actually “El Morro”.

17

A little bit of encouragement, I went to college with a guy from Mexico. He was a native Spanish speaker, but he couldn’t roll his 'r’s (by his own admission). Weird.

Now that I think about it, maybe that’s why he left Mexico. Probably not, though.

18

HA! That’s the one the Cubans taught me in SoFlo!

Still can’t roll my Rs, but los Cubanos told me not to worry about it; lots of Cubans couldn’t, either.

19

Dialect differences. We can roll them, we just don’t do that. :wink: In this case, I do not know if it is considered formal (like many dialect differences) or not. Or if it is in the level of informal but not vulgar, and should not be said during a formal speech.

And sorry for the double post before, the server said that it didn’t go through.

20

I was going to ask about that…
You see, in Portuguese (I know, we’re talking about Spanish here, but they are very close), the rolled r rules are essentially the same as sailor’s rules. That said, in the regional accent of Rio de Janeiro, the r’s are not rolled: they are pronounced as gutteral h’s, with a touch of uvula action. Hence, the name of their fine city is pronounced as “Heeeo” and not “Rrrrrrio”
As a result, I have happily avoided having to learn how to roll my r’s.

So, if you can find a country whose regional Spanish accent does not include rolled r’s, that may be your way to get around the problem.

Does anybody know of other places where Spanish double-r’s are not rolled?