Romney: If I Offended Anyone by Torturing Him, I Apologize"

[blondebear]

I can’t get past him saying he can’t remember the incident. That doesn’t make sense to me, and I wouldn’t trust anyone who said this. I would supect they had
some kind of brain damage or psychological condition.

[Steve_MB]

@Happy_Lendervedder

Put together, these things all start to paint an unpleasant portrait of the candidate. Like it or not, public perception of a candidate is pretty critical in presidential elections. And that ugly picture that’s being painted of Romney? He’s supplying the paint and brush.

Recall that Seamus’s roof-ride came to public attention because Romney told the story thinking that it was a nice folksy anecdote.

Choosing someone with such a weak understanding of normal and proper human behavior as a political leader is like hiring someone who moves their lips while reading as a librarian or someone who counts on his fingers as an accountant.

[Gagundathar]

Several possibilities come to mind vis-a-vis Mr. Romney’s memory (or lack thereof) about this incident.

1. He has blocked out the memory because he is genuinely embarrassed about it and hasn’t ever actually come to grips with his actions.

2. Bullying was so commonplace in his cadre that the incident was unremarkable and left no lasting impression.

3. He is lying and does remember it, but believes it is politically untenable to admit that he remembers doing this (and not apologizing for it afterward).

4. So many things have happened to him in the intervening years which have fundamentally changed him so profoundly that the memories are assigned to an ‘earlier version’ of himself and therefore not immediately available as a recollection.

The 4th option may be the most generous to Mr. Romney, if not the most probable.

The actions of an 18-year-old man may not reflect upon his later character, but the culpability for those actions do not diminish merely because of the passage of years. It is quite likely that Mr. Romney was lauded by the members of his cadre for his unworthy actions, and since at least one of his cohort remember the incident with some clarity, Mr. Romney’s protestations of having no memory of this event are difficult to accept at face value.

[Zebra]

It is an early showing of Romney’s leadership skills. And it should silence any doubts that Romney himself would have gone and cut Osama Bin Laden’s hair. (after the Seals held him down of course)

[BrainGlutton]

@Happy_Lendervedder

Obviously this sort of thing isn’t relevant on its own. But what this sort of thing does, combined with the dog-on-roof story, corporations-are-people line, I-like-to-fire-people thing, trees-are-the-perfect-height-in-MI clip, $10,000-bet…it starts to paint a picture of Romney, that he’s a bit “off;” not nice or normal. The right has been trying to do that with Obama for the past four years-- Nazi, Socialist, Communist, Kenyan, un-American, non-American, not “like us,” radical Black politics, etc.

What matters is how the candidate addresses these things, or if they’re self-created to begin with. No one made up the silly stuff about the dog, corporations, firing people, trees, $10,000 bet, or (presumably) the bullying incident. And today’s response to the bullying incident contributes much more to the picture than does the 50-year-old incident itself.

Put together, these things all start to paint an unpleasant portrait of the candidate. Like it or not, public perception of a candidate is pretty critical in presidential elections. And that ugly picture that’s being painted of Romney? He’s supplying the paint and brush.

This.

[Carmady]

@Chimera

I really don’t give a flying fuck what any Presidential Candidate did back in High School.

What’s next? Obama stole milk money from someone when he was in kindergarden? Romney was a grabby toddler who upset the neighbors cat by trying to pick it up?

How many people are still in jail because of crimes they committed in kindergarten?

Any different than the numbers for 18 year olds?

(not that I necessarily think this matters, but 18 or even 17 is a world of difference from 6)

[MOIDALIZE]

Cutting a classmate’s hair, cutting jobs, cutting trees down to the perfect height…Maybe we should start calling him Chainsaw Mitt.

[Little_Nemo]

@Chimera

I really don’t give a flying fuck what any Presidential Candidate did back in High School.

What’s next? Obama stole milk money from someone when he was in kindergarden? Romney was a grabby toddler who upset the neighbors cat by trying to pick it up?

The relevant issue isn’t really whether Romney harassed another student when he was in high school. The relevant issue is responsibility.

Romney should have either said, “No, that never happened. I’m not like that. And I challenge reporters to look into this and see if they can any credible evidence that this happened.”

Or he should have said, “You know what? I was a jerk when I was a teenager. A lot of us did stupid things we regret later when we grow up. I was wrong when I did that and I apologize.”

But saying he doesn’t remember whether or not he did something like this when he was eighteen? He’s either lying to cover his ass or he’s basically admitting he harassed so many students that he can’t remember all the details. And if that’s the case, he should be going back to the apology option.

[Steve_MB]

@Carmady

How many people are still in jail because of crimes they committed in kindergarten?

Any different than the numbers for 18 year olds?

(not that I necessarily think this matters, but 18 or even 17 is a world of difference from 6)

Now, to be fair, the Republican position on crime has always recognized that juveniles, whether 6 or 17, can’t really be expected to know better, and should be treated wtih understanding and compassion with an eye toward rehabilitation rather than punishment–

Oh. Wait. No, that isn’t what they say at all. Never mind…

[BigAppleBucky]

Let’s face it. The man lacks empathy. He has displayed that quality over and over again. This story should not be a huge surprise. Laughing at the story when asked about it this year just adds icing to the cake.

---

And this is a really solid story. At least four of his classmates recalled the incident.

[Yookeroo]

@Alan_Smithee

I agree that what someone did almost 50 years ago in high school says relatively little about their character. I’m certainly not going to brand Romney a sociopath over it. In fact, if Romney had said that he remembers the incident vividly and prays regularly for forgiveness over it and is grateful for the chance now to communicate publicly his sincere apology not only to the victim but to anyone else who might have been made to feel less safe in school that day or who might have felt pressured by Romney to participate in the gay bashing and feels guilty to this day over it, I would almost certainly think more highly of Romney than I did previously.

It’s the fact that he hasn’t said any of this, apparently barely remembers the incident, and doesn’t think it was a big deal that makes him a sociopath.

Yeah. Come out and say you did stupid shit as a teenager and you regret it? I’m cutting you a lot of slack. Pretending that you don’t even remember it? That makes you look like a total shit. This is the kind of behavior that causes suicides. Engaging in it at that time, at that age? Maybe forgivable if there’s actual regret for the behavior. But i need to see some evidence that he’s not that total shit. It’s not real evident in the policies he espouses.

@Chimera

Shoplifting? No.
Torture? Yes

Torturing cats raises an eyebrow. Torturing a fellow student with the wrong hairstyle? No?

[Marley23]

@Measure_for_Measure

Like I said, one in every crowd. But I wouldn’t call him a prankster or class clown. What Romney did was something else.

I didn’t and wouldn’t call him those things. Like I said, the incident was creepy and cruel, and he’s done plenty of things that leave the impression he’s a dick. But that being said, I’m concerned about the amount of energy that’s being expended on this kind of stuff. It’s not that I think those things are off-limits as topics of inquiry; it’s that I think they’re of very little relevance compared to his platform and his record. There’s always stupid stuff in an election and it’s still almost six months until people actually vote, but at the moment, his comments on women’s issues and his economic proposals and his views on the auto bailout are getting less attention than something he did 45 years ago to a guy who died almost a decade ago.

[elucidator]

Lots has been said about the damage drugs can do to the mind, but, by comparison, look what no drugs at all can do. I mean, who knows but if Mittens had a solid hit of windowpane acid around '68 or ‘69 might have saved us all a lot of trouble. Just sayin’, is all.

I mean, this is a guy who would be tripping balls behind a can of Dr. Pepper.

[bengangmo]

@Marley23

I didn’t and wouldn’t call him those things. Like I said, the incident was creepy and cruel, and he’s done plenty of things that leave the impression he’s a dick. But that being said, I’m concerned about the amount of energy that’s being expended on this kind of stuff. It’s not that I think those things are off-limits as topics of inquiry; it’s that I think they’re of very little relevance compared to his platform and his record. There’s always stupid stuff in an election and it’s still almost six months until people actually vote, but at the moment, his comments on women’s issues and his economic proposals and his views on the auto bailout are getting less attention than something he did 45 years ago to a guy who died almost a decade ago.

I’m all for a separation between personal life and policies.

There does come a stage though when you use the character of a candidate as a guide to how he might react, or how he will devise future policy.

For the bullying case, its not so much that he did it - but more that he professes not to remember it.

In the case of Obama - he admits to doing stupid and illegal shit. He also admits to learning from it.

I have also done some pretty nasty things, both as a young teenager (13-15) that I can still remember pretty vividly, and am now ashamed of.

As an adult I have also done things that I wish I hadn’t. All I remember

[gamerunknown]

@MPB in Salt Lake

if it comes out that Barack Obama did this exact same kind of thing when he was in high school, would it actually keep any of you from voting for him?

It’d be informative as to why Obama didn’t defend a member of his staff that was hounded out of their position for being gay, why he opposes civil unions and marriage for homosexuals and continues to subscribe to a religion that opposes tolerance of homosexuality. In fact, it’d be informative as to his motivations for cutting government programs designed to help the downtrodden in society. If this hypothetical Obama were Romney, that is.

@Chimera

I really don’t give a flying fuck what any Presidential Candidate did back in High School.

Daniel Inouye was volunteering at Pearl Harbour when he was around Romney’s age at the time of this incident.

[septimus]

@TonySinclair

To be fair, Obama was a full ten years old. Romney was only 18.

Exactly. One of the greatest Presidents America’s ever known was a drunken prankster into his thirties and went on to be voted “The Greatest Living American,” and to defeat Saddam Hussein single-handedly. And now the liberals are complaining about a Patriot showing similar gumption when he was only 18. :dubious:

Right-thinking Americans are far more concerned about the too-clever-for-its-britches fetus that had itself flown to Kenya secretly for Satanic birth rituals.

[Dangerosa]

@Measure_for_Measure

Well as always it depends upon the details. Roughly speaking though, something like this might cause me to shift from Obama to Hillary Clinton in last election’s primary. Maybe.

Part of the problem is that I have difficulty imagining this pattern of behavior (as opposed to a single isolated incident) coming from Obama. It’s also unlikely for Bill Clinton, but I find it easier at least to imagine that scenario in an alternative universe. Then again, LBJ was a bully. The media isn’t playing like this like a scandal, but if it were I’d say that I like to wait a at least few days before making a tentative judgment. Mitt Romney doesn’t seem to think it’s a big deal.

Bill’s behavior and Hillary’s reaction to it is one of the reasons I didn’t support Hillary in the primary. I think Clinton was a pretty good President, but we didn’t need his distractions.

John Kerry got “Swiftboated” - the events of that incident were not clear, happened 30 years ago, and happened in a war he volunteered to fight and probably should have been getting credit for being there instead of getting blamed for what happened while he was there… People thought the actions he took in his 20s were pertinent, I’m not sure what the difference a few years make.

[Eve]

A lot of people were bullies and bigots in high school. Most of them mature into very nice people.

Romney was a bully and bigot in high school–and he now wants to rewrite the Constitution to discriminate against gays. Which indicates that he has not matured into a very nice person.

[BobLibDem]

@Dangerosa

Bill’s behavior and Hillary’s reaction to it is one of the reasons I didn’t support Hillary in the primary. I think Clinton was a pretty good President, but we didn’t need his distractions.

John Kerry got “Swiftboated” - the events of that incident were not clear, happened 30 years ago, and happened in a war he volunteered to fight and probably should have been getting credit for being there instead of getting blamed for what happened while he was there… People thought the actions he took in his 20s were pertinent, I’m not sure what the difference a few years make.

Protesting against a pointless war? Unforgivable! Leading a gang assault on a gay classmate? A harmless hijink or prank!

[What_the]

@TonySinclair

Admittedly not an exact quote, but that’s the gist.

This story broke:
Does it matter if Mitt Romney was a bully in high school? - CSMonitor.com

about Romney leading a gang of bullies to hold down a non-conformist kid, and forcibly cut his hair as he was screaming for help. Asked about it today on Fox News, Romney said he didn’t remember doing it, but would not challenge the man’s account, and added that he did lots of stupid things in high school, and if he hurt anyone, he was sorry.

Can’t wait to see how Rush spins this one. “Good to know we have a real man running for office.”

Careful… there’s poison in this well.

It’s amazing what you can find when you want to.