I’m not shocked or surprised at the callous and vicious things some among you had to say about one of our greatest presidents. He didn’t agree with you, so that makes him evil in your minds. And he got a terrible disease, which is just what he deserves. Is that your take on it?
Isn’t it always the way: Liberals, the people that claim to have such love for mankind, are so hateful towards people?
Reagan was a great man, and served his country better than any of us EVER will. His contributions were positive, profound and long-lasting, but philosophical myopia prevents some from seeing that. I don’t insist that you see it that way, but have the decency and respect for a fine man in the twilight of a life spent in the service of others.
The greatest service I’m likely to ever do for the country was to cast my first-ever vote for Ronald Reagan, and another one four years later. In fifteen years of decorated military service, THAT is what I’m proudest of.
“Taps” is played over fallen soldiers. When Ronald Reagan, The Happy Warrior, does pass away, that’s what I’ll hear, and not the savage attacks of lesser beings that just want a day off from work.
Shame on those of you that wish him evil. He wouldn’t wish it on you, no matter what your disagreement with him was. He was always better than that.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Bluesman * I’m not shocked or surprised at the callous and vicious things some among you had to say about one of our greatest presidents. He didn’t agree with you, so that makes him evil in your minds.[/QUOTE}
No, he did stupid and hateful things, and that’s why I don’t like him. Gerald Ford doesn’t agree with me on a lot of stuff either, but since he didn’t do anything stupid or hateful, I have no beef with the guy.
Geez, you Conservatives love your liberal-bashing stereotypes, don’t you?
Oh, spare us your ideological righteous indignation. Mocking someone who suffers from Alzheimer’s Disease has nothing to do with being a liberal, a conservative or a moderate. It has to do with being tacky, graceless and lacking a shred of human compassion. However, criticizing and debating the relative merits of a politician with whom you disagree is not only allowed, but encouraged in this particular venue. Both Guinastasia and Five demonstrated the difference eloquently earlier in the thread.
**
Your opinion, which is as valid (or invalid) as anyone else’s in this thread, no more or less so.
**
Why? Obviously the people who disagreed so strongly during his Presidency did not respect him while he was healthy. The fact that he suffers from a horrible and deblitating illness does not erase the differences that one has with his ideas, ideals, actions and policies. They are still as open to discussion, debate and ridicule as they ever were.
**
What you seem to fail to understand is that some would say that their finest moment came when they cast a vote for Carter in 1980 and Mondale in 1984. Obviously, they were not as lucky as you in being able to look upon their proudest moment as a successful venture. But then, heroism in the face of failure has a glory all its own, doesn’t it?
I, for one, don’t mind that you feel the way you do about Mr. Reagan, even though my personal feelings are much more closely allied with the posters above than yours. The opportunity to come into contact with intelligent people with opinions different than my own is one of the strong attractions to this board. However, I do mind when you disingenuously accuse someone who disagrees with Mr. Reagan and his policies of being mean spirited simply because they are willing to say so, even though he suffers from Alzheimer’s Disease.
Yeah, he’s a great man, all right.
BTW, how many brutal murders in Central America was Reagan and his cronies responsible for? Supported right-wing fascist dictators. Sounds wonderful to me.
Sold arms to an enemy. ILLEGALLY, I might add.
Wanted to get rid of the Department of Education.
Called anyone who wanted a nuclear freeze a commie.
Compared the contras to the Founding Fathers.
Laid a wreath on the grave of Nazis and declined to visit concentration camps because it would only be out of “guilt.” (bad PR move, I say!)
Blatantly lied saying that the Pope encouraged his efforts in Central America, when in fact the Vatican was doing just the opposite!
Continued support for General Pinochet after Carter had ended it. (although, to be fair, eventually realized what a true assbag Pinochet really was)
Called Oliver North (bastard!) a “National hero.” gag
Praised Senator Joseph McCarthy and the House Un-American Activities Committee.
Created the huge deficit we now have hanging over our heads.
Cut back on environmental protection laws and welfare programs-resulting in more pollution and poverty in America.
Please. I feel sorry for the man-I truly truly do. But Reagan was a sorry excuse for a president and responsible for thousands of deaths of innocents in Central America. Carter may have had problems, but at least he was a man of character.
It KILLS me that people go around screaming about Clinton and perjury. Over a BLOW JOB!!! And Reagan got away with selling illegal arms to an enemy, while funding the contras after Congress decided against it. Going against the Constitution. I don’t get it. Reagan was the worst president we’ve ever had, in my opinion. Well, one of them at any rate.
Why do I get the feeling the Bluesman’s response will be, “Well, aside from that, he was a great President”…
Either that, or “Breaking the law to sell arms to the Contras to fight the commies is better than lying about a blowjob any day!” Which is IMO a really skewed sense of proportions…
Bluesman, having met you, and knowing you as a decent an honorable person, and a hell of a lot of fun, I am absolutely flabbergasted that you would come in here on a righteous high horse and attribute things to people that they never said. To wit:
Nobody here said that, and in fact several people specifically declaimed that idea. If you want to take issue, take issue with what people said, not what you wish they had said.
Oh, come on. You know better than this. Neither liberals nor conservatives have a corner on hatred, nor do all liberals or conservatives act like the stereotypes we like to attribute to them. The fact that you are angry that some people don’t like Ronald Reagan does not give you permission to divorce yourself from reason.
You’ve met RTFirefly on several occasions; does he seem to you like a particularly hateful person? Now look up a few posts at MC, who disingenuously blocks out “nigger” and “faggot” when “gay” and “black” would have served the same purposes in that sentence.
And how does categorizing “liberals” as “hateful” differ significantly from calling someone evil because they disagree with you–the action you decry in your opening paragraph?
Philosophical myopia? Try a simple grasp of mathematics. Federal spending under Reagan rose by about 25% by the end of his two terms, and that’s in real dollars, my friend. He, and the morons in the Congress, created a Federal deficit of absolutely staggering proportions that haunts us still. It’s definitely long-lasting, but I would hardly call it positive.
And that’s the problem with Reagan apologists (and Clinton apologists, for that matter)–their stubborn refusal to admit that the man could possibly have done wrong. If that’s your thing, great, but it isn’t at all reflective of reality.
And others see it differently. My father, a career soldier and decorated combat veteran, has considered it a personal mission since 1968 to vote against the Republicans every time he stepped to the ballot box. He considers Ronald Reagan one of the worst Presidents this country ever saw. See, just as “liberals” are not a mass mind, neither are the members of the U.S. military.
(Me, I was too young to vote when he ran, so I don’t have a dog in the fight.)
I think this is reflective of myopia. The man is not God, or even a saint. He is a human being and subject to the same flaws as all of us, including you and me. I have no doubt that there are those to which he wished harm.
Guinastasia, you left out the fact that he completely destroyed the airline industry during the air traffic controllers’ strike (look at the godawful mess it is today).
He also—respectfully disagreeing with MC—dragged his feet during the first eight years of the AIDS epidemic.
And—long before he even became President, when he was head of the Screen Actors’ Guild—he passed a ruling that no one would receive residuals from anything filmed before 1960! Leaving a lot of show business people flat broke in their old age.
Reagan was a stupid, venal old swine who had his strings pulled by that hideously coifed old cadaver Nancy, I
feel certain that he was senile well in advance of his election to the POTUS ,he was a one-dimensional leader
who mixed fantasy with fact,with an “encyclopedic ignorance” both deep and wide, during Ronnie’s tenure
there were more Administration officials in prison, under criminal investigation, on probation, or on parole , than in any other Presidency in history. Ever…not to mention the $&L rip-off, the arming of Iraq and Ronnie ignoring the AIDS epidemic at the outset when it could’ve been stemmed by aggressive action…I am not a vindictive sort, but I have an old very dusty bottle of champagne to be uncorked when he kicks it.
…well at least he never puked in the lap of the PM of Japan.
all right, i want a cite. guinastasia kindly provided us with a friggin laundry list of various fuckups and outright lies reagan perpetrated. bill h and bluesman, what in gods green fuck did reagan DO, besides be a republican, that warrants such touching devotion?
essvee, I’m not interested in debating Reagan’s greatness here. If you’re honestly unaware of Reagan’s accomplishments, try reading the whitehouse page here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/rr40.html
or take a look at the Reagan Library here: http://www.reagan.utexas.edu
Or you may consider going to Google and searching on “Ronald Reagan”.
um, respectfully, bill h, what the heck are you doing here, then? to my mind, that is exactly what you were doing, at least up until the time someone asked you to drop some knowledge of the situation.
yeah, betenoir, i as well thought mc’s post wuz incomrehensible, hateful, and inappropriate. im surprised he hasnt been savaged yet, and then i realized that the people best equipped to savage him prolly wouldnt go anywhere near a thread named thusly.
Another thing-I keep hearing that Reagan should take most of, if not all of, the credit for the fall of the USSR.
So, I decided to ask my Russian professor, Dr. Igor Jourin of La Roche college, who lived in Russia and fled during Reagan’s early terms (before Gorbachev came into power).
Guess what? HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! According to my professor, communism had been decaying from within-it was a flawed system, that fell on its own. If ANYONE caused the fall, it was the RUSSIAN PEOPLE. REAGAN was merely president during its downfall. And Reagan caused a lot of harm in Latin America.
I can point you guys towards some books, if you are interested, and perhaps put you in touch with a professor of mine, who will indeed set you straight on just how “great” Reagan was.
BTW, if you wish for more sources, I can offer the bibliography of Times and Newsweeks from the 1980s which I have been reading to pass the time over at campus when I’m bored. I could probably look at some other magazines as well.
And Bluesman-for the LAST TIME: I do NOT think Reagan is getting what he deserves. THAT is for him and his conscience. No, I think it is terribly unfortunate for him that he has Alzheimer’s disease. Please make sure you read my posts correctly next time.
Uh, not to argue with the natives, but arms races cost money. Reagan certainly wasn’t the only factor, but he was one, and he implemented the most expensive arms race yet. So you tell me: if you have 900 dollars in your bank account, and you write ten checks for $100 each, which check breaks you? The last one.
And the story continues: most people in the FSR’s are still dirt poor, and they can’t manage to throw out the surviving goons running things. If all it took to get rid of the gov’t then was for the people to arise, why can’t they do it again now?
~
[quote]
Does anybody have any idea what MC is talking about here? I’d realy like to know. - betenoir*
I wasn’t as clear as possible; I should have said (in the lingo of the time period) “In the US twenty years ago, AIDS was a nigger, faggot and junkie disease”. In short, most of the US public wasn’t concerned. - MC
