Ronald Reagan's Birthday

[BrainGlutton]

@Curtis LeMay

You should note that the last twenty years have two great eras of prosperity (the '90s boom and the '00s boom).

Not so much.

[Kimstu]

@statsman1982

But did anyone ever match Reagan’s 49-state landslide election victory in 1984? I think that was probably the most significant event that conservatives have based their narrative on, second only to the fall of the Berlin Wall.

Well, as the OP notes,

@PunkyPoo

In 1984 he won 49 states and received 58.8% of the popular vote.

And as Cecil’s column linked by Der Trihs notes, Nixon won re-election in 1972 with 60.7% of the popular vote. Nixon also carried 49 states, with the Democratic holdout in this case being Massachusetts.

So on these numbers, Nixon in 1972 had a bigger landslide than Reagan in 1984.

[Qin_Shi_Huangdi]

@BrainGlutton

:dubious: There is never a time when American exceptionalism is needed.

We needed it. In the late '70s America was weak and shaking at it’s knees-plagued by self-doubt and lack of confidence. We needed and thankfully got someone who truly believed in America-who believed America to be the last, best hope for humanity.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

You really chug-a-lug everything they give you, don’t you?

Sorry to break it to you, but every word of that post is complete horseshit. Not your fault. You didn’t know. They probably told you it was filet mignon.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

“American Exceptionalism” is a racist, right wing fairy tale, by the way. Just FYI.

[Kimstu]

@Curtis LeMay

We needed it. In the late '70s America was weak and shaking at it’s knees-plagued by self-doubt and lack of confidence. We needed and thankfully got someone who truly believed in America

The President we already had in the 1970s was already saying those same hopey-changey things:

@Jimmy Carter in 1979

We know the strength of America. We are strong. We can regain our unity. We can regain our confidence. We are the heirs of generations who survived threats much more powerful and awesome than those that challenge us now. Our fathers and mothers were strong men and women who shaped a new society during the Great Depression, who fought world wars, and who carved out a new charter of peace for the world.

We ourselves and the same Americans who just 10 years ago put a man on the Moon. We are the generation that dedicated our society to the pursuit of human rights and equality. And we are the generation that will win the war on the energy problem and in that process rebuild the unity and confidence of America. […]

Let your voice be heard. Whenever you have a chance, say something good about our country. With God’s help and for the sake of our Nation, it is time for us to join hands in America. Let us commit ourselves together to a rebirth of the American spirit. Working together with our common faith we cannot fail.

The energy crisis and economic slump soured the American public on Carter, so they elected Reagan. In the ensuing recession the reduced demand for oil led to OPEC overproduction, so energy prices came down.

Reagan didn’t work any miracle of psychic healing on the US with his magical “truly believing in America”. He was simply lucky enough to preside over an oil price decline and shrewd enough to help along economic growth in the short term with massive deficit spending and tax cuts.

[Qin_Shi_Huangdi]

[quote=“Diogenes_the_Cynic, post:84, topic:527948”]

You really chug-a-lug everything they give you, don’t you?

Sorry to break it to you, but every word of that post is complete horseshit. Not your fault. You didn’t know. They probably told you it was filet mignon.
[/QUOTE

Are you saying that America was not suffering a crisis of confidence than? Don’t you know Carter’s pathetic “malaise” speech.

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

“American Exceptionalism” is a racist, right wing fairy tale, by the way. Just FYI.

America is the world’s most powerful nation, and a democracy. It was America’s that helped win the two great struggles for democracy-World War II and the Cold War.

[Qin_Shi_Huangdi]

I’m not saying Reagan’s belief in American exceptionalism improved conditions on it’s own. But it helped him be a more confident and decisive President than Carter which in turn helped improve a whole lot of things.

[Kimstu]

@Curtis LeMay

Are you saying that America was not suffering a crisis of confidence than? Don’t you know Carter’s pathetic “malaise” speech.

That’s the one I just quoted in the post above yours. The point is not that America wasn’t in a crisis of confidence, it’s that Reagan didn’t have any magical shamanic confidence powers that cured it.

If OPEC oil prices had happened to come down under Carter’s administration, he would have been re-elected, and today he’d be the one getting credit for “curing” the US “malaise” with his inspirational belief in America.

Mind you, I’m not saying that Reagan didn’t have in many respects a charismatic personality and a likeable public persona. But he wasn’t some kind of self-confidence messiah whose epiphany saved America from crippling low self-esteem. If OPEC had kept oil production low and prices high in the early 80’s, Reagan would now be remembered as a mediocre one-termer, like Ford and Carter.

[Squink]

@Curtis LeMay

We needed and thankfully got someone who truly believed in America-who believed America to be the last, best hope for humanity.

Contempt of America, Contempt of Congress at the EPA:

In 1982 Congress charged that the EPA had mishandled the $1.6 billion toxic waste Superfund and demanded records from Gorsuch. Gorsuch refused and became the first agency director in U.S. history to be cited for contempt of Congress.

James G. Watt, Dumping the nation’s common resources at firesale prices:

Watt resisted accepting donations of private land to be used for conservation purposes.[7] He suggested that all 80 million acres (320,000 km²) of undeveloped land in the United States be opened for drilling and mining in the year 2000.[7] The area leased to coal mining companies quintupled during his term as Secretary of the Interior.[7] Watt proudly boasted that he leased “a billion acres” (4 million km²) of U.S. coastal waters, even though only a small portion of that area would ever be drilled.[7] Watt once stated, “We will mine more, drill more, cut more timber.”[8]

Sheer nuttiness:

In 1983, Watt banned The Beach Boys from playing a Independence Day concert on the National Mall in Washington, D.C., saying that rock concerts drew “an undesirable element”; the group had played each year on the Mall on Independence Day from 1976 to 1981.

These were NOT people who “believed in America”, they were Ronny’s political cronys, cashing in on their newfound power.
For those of you who didn’t experience the time first hand, think about the glorious tenure of the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq. Reagan stuffed the American system like Bush stuffed Baghdad.

[BrainGlutton]

@Curtis LeMay

We needed it. In the late '70s America was weak and shaking at it’s knees-plagued by self-doubt and lack of confidence. We needed and thankfully got someone who truly believed in America-who believed America to be the last, best hope for humanity.

:dubious: That ain’t no improvement. Self-doubt is better than self-deception. And it’s self-deception to think America is more than just a country.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Curtis LeMay

Are you saying that America was not suffering a crisis of confidence than?

That’s what I’m saying, yes. That’s correct. There was no crisis in confidence.

Don’t you know Carter’s pathetic “malaise” speech.

I saw it live on TV. It was actually pretty well received by the public (and he never said the word, “malaise,” by the way), and he got a spike in the polls afterwards, but they don’t tell you that in the right wing brain washing seminars, do they?

Carter did use the phrase “crisis of confidence,” but he was wrong. There was an economic crisis, all right, but people were not going around ringing bells and declaiming the end of the world. The Reagan mythologists tend to portray the attitude of Americans as much more morose and depressed than they really were.

From what I remember from being there, the thing that hurt Carter the most was his perceived impotence during the Iran hostage crisis. That was the dominant topic of discussion for his last year in office, and simple minded calls to “bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran” dominated the discussion. He was really in a no win situation with that. Obviously, military action against Iran was no solution at all, but not going in and kicking ass made him look weak. For the record, Reagan would not, and could not have taken military action either.

Carter’s administration finally negotiated the release of the hostages, but Reagan got credit for it. Then he hung in there long enough to take credit when the recession finally ended.

America is the world’s most powerful nation, and a democracy. It was America’s that helped win the two great struggles for democracy-World War II and the Cold War.

Yes, America is very powerful. America can blow shit up. That makes them special how?

[I_Love_Me_Vol.I]

@Curtis LeMay

Hopefully twenty or thirty years from now he will be viewed more objectivelhy

I don’t think you’ll like it very much when he finally IS viewed more objectively.

[Shodan]

@Kyla

Reagan never mentioned the word “AIDS” publicly during his presidency. He never acknowledged that it exists.

I haven’t found that these kinds of things ever stick, but the above is false.

President Reagan indeed used the word “AIDS” in a September 17, 1985, press conference. So the widely accepted myth that he did not even utter those four letters until 1987 remains precisely that:a myth.
Finally, while President Reagan’s critics are free to argue that he should have done more about AIDS, and perhaps he should have, the fact that total federal HIV/AIDS expenditures grew from $0 to $5.727 billion on his watch belies the notion that he “did nothing” about this vicious disease.

@Ronald Reagan

We will continue, as a high priority, the fight against Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS). An unprecedented research effort is underway to deal with this major epidemic public health threat. The number of AIDS cases is expected to increase. While there are hopes for drugs and vaccines against AIDS, none is immediately at hand. Consequently, efforts should focus on prevention, to inform and to lower risks of further transmission of the AIDS virus. To this end, I am asking the Surgeon General to prepare a report to the American people on AIDS.

@Diogenes the Cynic

Does it bother you that he arranged for the release of US hostages in Iran to be delayed for an extra 3 months so they could be turned over to his adminstration instead of Carter’s?

This is also a false statement. Congress investigated this horseshit, twice, and found there was nothing behind it.

:shrugs:

In a way it is kind of reassuring to see that so much of the hatred of the Left for Republicans is founded on fantasy.

Regards,
Shodan

[El_Kabong]

@Curtis LeMay

We needed it. In the late '70s America was weak and shaking at it’s knees-plagued by self-doubt and lack of confidence. We needed and thankfully got someone who truly believed in America-who believed America to be the last, best hope for humanity.

Hey, I was there, man.

Seriously, though, the quote above is utterly meaningless blather from beginning to end. Do you really think that I, for example, based anything at all that I did, said or or thought during that period on whether or not Saint Ronnie said everything was just peachy?

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Shodan

This is also a false statement. Congress investigated this horseshit, twice, and found there was nothing behind it.

Congress found insufficient evidence to prove it. They didn’t find that there was “nothing behind it.”

[Shodan]

@El_Kabong

Hey, I was there, man.

So was I. He’s right and you’re wrong.

Do you really think that I, for example, based anything at all that I did, said or or thought during that period on whether Saint Ronnie said everything was just peachy?

No, obviously not, but we have already seen how hatred of Reagan is based on false beliefs about what he said or did.

But the country did not base what they did on what Reagan said. They were more likely to base their opinions of him on the drop in unemployment, interest rates and the “misery index”, the longest sustained economic boom in US peacetime history, the drop in the poverty rate, the switch from accommodation to actually winning the Cold War, the removal of missiles from Europe, etc., etc. You know, the real achievements of the Reagan era - not the lies and strawmen that his enemies spread about him.

Regards,
Shodan

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

Boilerplate conservative mythology.

[Shodan]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

Congress found insufficient evidence to prove it. They didn’t find that there was “nothing behind it.”

The US Senate’s 1992 report concluded that “by any standard, the credible evidence now known falls far short of supporting the allegation of an agreement between the Reagan campaign and Iran to delay the release of the hostages”.

The House of Representatives’ 1993 report concluded “there is no credible evidence supporting any attempt by the Reagan presidential campaign—or persons associated with the campaign—to delay the release of the American hostages in Iran”. The task force Chairman Lee Hamilton also added that the vast majority of the sources and material reviewed by the committee were “wholesale fabricators or were impeached by documentary evidence.” The report also expressed the belief that several witnesses had committed perjury during their sworn statements to the committee, among them Richard Brenneke,[11] who claimed to be a CIA agent.[12]

Newsweek

Newsweek magazine also ran an investigation, and they said that most if not all the charges made to be groundless. Specifically, Newsweek found little evidence that the United States had transferred arms to Iran prior to Iran Contra, was able to account for Bill Casey’s whereabouts when he was allegedly at the Madrid meeting, saying that he was at a conference in London. But his presence at this meeting was not confirmed by those in attendance including historian Robert Dallock. Newsweek never printed a correction.[15]. Newsweek also alleged that the story was being heavily pushed within the LaRouche Movement[16].
[edit] The New Republic

Steven Emerson and Jesse Furman of the The New Republic, also looked into the allegations and found “the conspiracy as currently postulated is a total fabrication”. They were unable to verify any of the evidence presented by Sick and supporters, finding them to be inconsistent and contradictory in nature. They also pointed out that nearly every witness of Sick had either been indicted or were under investigation by the Department of Justice. Like the Newsweek investigation they had also debunked the claims of Reagan election campaign officials being in Paris during the timeframe Sick claimed they had been, contradicting Sick’s sources.[17]

In other words, you made an allegation based on a complete lack of any credible evidence at all, and which in most cases has been shown to be false.

How surprising.

Regards,
Shodan

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

Reagan is neither a demigod nor a demon. He’s just a guy who was President. Much of the credit for his successes should go to other people - but on the other hand, much of the blame for his failures should too.

As a figurehead, he was excellent - a man who realized that the title leader of the free world was a courtesy, not an accurate description. As a President, he was just okay.

@Curtis LeMay

One of the problems both Democrats and Republicans have is that because Keyenesian or Supply-Side economics has worked that’s the perfect economic system that should always be in place. In the Great Depression we needed some Keynesianism, in the '80s we needed some supply-side economics. You should note that the last twenty years have two great eras of prosperity (the '90s boom and the '00s boom).

Reagan didn’t practice supply-side economics. He practiced massive deficit spending and cut taxes. He campaigned on fiscal responsibility and gave us the opposite.

Keynesianism is like Communism; it works in principle, but not in practice. The problem with Keynesian economics is less fundamental than with communism; we don’t have responsible politicians and we don’t have responsible voters.

Ideally, we’d overspend during times of recession and then replenish the Treasury using the surplus in good times. Instead, we overspend during times of recession and cut taxes during good times.

@Curtis LeMay

We needed it. In the late '70s America was weak and shaking at it’s knees-plagued by self-doubt and lack of confidence. We needed and thankfully got someone who truly believed in America-who believed America to be the last, best hope for humanity.

Princess Leia?