Rooves, thanks for injecting your haughty supremacism into a perfectly good thread

[Ale]

Mind you, I should have said “my comment”, rather than “my opinion”…

[chula]

Well Ale, if you had read the whole thing you would have seen that no one was criticizing him for his stupid joke but for his uninformed, nartrow-minded opinions.

[Ale]

Yep, I saw that; however debating wether american indians where or not more or less sophisticated than europeans seems to me a waste of time; specially with all the historical revisionism and weaseling that has been put forth.
Uninformed opinion for sure, narrow minded?, well I haven´t seen that, at least to such an extent that the poor guy needed pittin´.

[LudditeAndroid]

Who’s the bigger racist here? Someone who makes a bad caveman joke, or someone who assumes a caveman joke is insulting native americans and start playing the “I’ll call you racist and that’ll make me a better person” game.

Rooves answered the question “What was America’s original name?” with “Unga bunga”. The people who inferred this was an insult to Native Americans are the ones who are just as if not more prejudiced if you ask me. Why did you read unga bunga and think “Native American” instead of “caveman”?

Yes, I’m calling some of you prejudiced. But that doesn’t make me a better person. How about you great crusaders for Native American recognition channel your white guilt into something constructive and give your land and belongings to me. I’m only part Native American though, so you only have to give me some of your stuff. Then I’ll make you an “Authentic Arapaho Bracelet” as a thank you. I really will make it myself, not steal it from the mall built over my great grandma’s grave. Honest.

[Tamerlane]

*Originally posted by Ale *
Yep, I saw that; however debating whether american indians were more or less sophisticated than europeans seems to me a waste of time

Possibly so - “sophistication” being a fairly loose term in a number of ways. You’d probably have to nail down the definition pretty firmly in order to debate the topic properly.

That said, putting aside the relative sophistication of one vs. the other needn’t obscure the reasonable point that even if true, being less spohisticated doesn’t necessarily = completely unsophisticated. I suspect that implication, whether meant or not, is what to some extent triggered the ire.

specially with all the historical revisionism and weaseling that has been put forth.

Illegitimate revisionsim in your view? Not all historical revisionism is wrong afterall, despite the bad rap the term gets from the Holocaust deniers.

• Tamerlane

[saoirse]

*Originally posted by Rooves *
**Complex might be a better word but sophisticated still fits.

That’s not my single determining factor, it was an example.

Map making, writing, Literacy,University,Navigation,Gun powder, Horseback riding,Bronze working, Iron working, Trade and economics are others. **

Actually, it seems that Rooves has been doing his research

[Smeghead]

What’s this?? No one’s mentioned “Guns, Germs, and Steel” yet?? What is the SDMB coming to? I thought we had a whole crew of people assigned to watch for threads where it could be recommended.

Anyway, go read it. It applies here quite nicely. The short version - Native Americans were less technologically advanced than Europeans because of accidents of geology instead of any inherent difference in the respective peoples.

[Tamerlane]

*Originally posted by Smeghead *
[Native Americans were less technologically advanced than Europeans because of accidents of geology instead of any inherent difference in the respective peoples.

Geography :D.

• Tamerlane

[Ale]

That said, putting aside the relative sophistication of one vs. the other needn’t obscure the reasonable point that even if true, being less spohisticated doesn’t necessarily = completely unsophisticated.

I agree, that´s why I said that the discussion of that point was a waste of time.

Illegitimate revisionsim in your view? Not all historical revisionism is wrong afterall, despite the bad rap the term gets from the Holocaust deniers.

Historical revisionism based on the application of 21st century Western morality on 15th century societies; like iamphuna comment regarding the European royal interbreeding. As for the weaseling I just have to quote Libertarian:

When Vespucci calls the Indians savages, you see, it is ironic because while they eat those whom they defeat in battle, the civilized white man seals his conquests by raping women, pillaging property, enslaving children, torturing survivors, and displaying heads on top of poles. The white man burns people at the stake, and doesn’t even have the decency to eat the flesh he has cooked.

Guess what Libertarian?, many American tribes/empires/civilizations did exactly the same thing on a regular basis… mind you, at least europeans didn´t eat their enemies… :rolleyes:

[Black_Train_Song]

See that Saoirse, I do have more experience than i gave myself credit for. I did play at least one full game of civilzation but I did lose before I got to space travel.

I was going to throw Refrigeration, Espionage, the laser and Fusion power in there but I thought it would be a bit over the top.

And for the record Luddite Android (whatever that means) claims to be part native american And he/she doesn’t want to eat my dead flesh.

[LudditeAndroid]

Don’t you speak for me beeyatch. Maybe I do want to eat your dead flesh. You don’t know. . . .

[Homebrew]

*Originally posted by LudditeAndroid *
**Who’s the bigger racist here? Someone who makes a bad caveman joke, or someone who assumes a caveman joke is insulting native americans and start playing the “I’ll call you racist and that’ll make me a better person” game.

Rooves answered the question “What was America’s original name?” with “Unga bunga”. The people who inferred this was an insult to Native Americans are the ones who are just as if not more prejudiced if you ask me. Why did you read unga bunga and think “Native American” instead of “caveman”?**

Considering that in many old movies and cartoons the stereotypical portrayal of the African native was a bunch of black men in grass skirts jumping around shouting “unga-bunga”, it’s easy to see how use of the term could be considered racist in the context of the original thread referenced in the OP.

[LudditeAndroid]

Again, where do you get NATIVE AMERICAN from “unga bunga” you racist rooves-flaming bastards? You mention “many old movies and cartoons” portraying Africans as saying unga bunga. Please tell me some examples of these many movies and cartoons (as I’ve never seen “unga bunga” used in any other context then cavemen) and explain why the hell a supposed stereotype against Africans would lead people to accuse someone of hating Native Americans. That’s two completely different cultures.

So I’ll repeat: Why did some of you read unga bunga and think “Native American” instead of “caveman”? Then you call that guy racist. Hello kettle.

[chula]

*Originally posted by LudditeAndroid *
**So I’ll repeat: Why did some of you read unga bunga and think “Native American” instead of “caveman”? Then you call that guy racist. Hello kettle. **

Because the thread was about Native Americans. Did you notice that?

[LudditeAndroid]

Was it about Native Americans before or after he said unga bunga?

[Sisyphus_kate]

you people have problems.

[Black_Train_Song]

I would say that the assumption was (in the original thread) that only the red man has occupied americas land in all of the eons that that particular land mass has exsisted. I said “Unga Bunga” because frankly the cave man doesn’t get enough credit. I’m part caveman you know.

Welcome aboard my ship Sis, the SS UNGA BUNGA. It’s headed for America you know. I hear there is plenty of fruit and open land. There’s that pesky savage problem but I bet we can have that under control in no time (they’re unsophisticated).

[Black_Train_Song]

Luddite runs the ships casino because hes part indian but don’t get discouraged. He’s a savage, but a fair one.

[Beryl_Mooncalf_1]

LudditeAndroid
I just wanted to tell you that there are other interesting threads here at SDMB. I just searched the archives to see how many times you have posted, and it appears that you only post in this thread. Being even newer than I am, I just wanted to welcome you, and let you know that there are other fine forums to view.
There might be people here who, well, they might be a little more suspicious than me, and ask you how long you have been Mrs. Rooves, or something like that. I would never do that, I just want to be sure you see all the other great forums here.
Thanks… b’ bye.

[iampunha]

*Originally posted by LudditeAndroid *
Was it about Native Americans before or after he said unga bunga?

Given:

In fact, I’ve never heard of any of the cultures native to the Americas naming their land, which makes sense because they didn’t have a concept of land ownership equivalent to the Western one. If you did a survey of every native culture, I bet a lot of the names you would find would simply mean “land” or “home” or similar things.

Concerning the name of the Americas among the indigenous inhabitants: In 1992, a tribe in Panama decided to propose the name Abya Yala so that Native Americans would not have to use the name of the European oppressors. There is an article on this at the Esperanto and French Wikipedias.

And every tribe would have different names for every different area, and might or might not have general names for larger areas. But they wouldn’t have a word that refered ONLY to America but not Europe, Asia, or Africa…because they didn’t know those regions existed.

Oh, and I disagree with the assertion that native americans didn’t have a concept of land ownership. Some did, some didn’t. Farmers generally do, hunter gatherers generally don’t. But most people in pre-Columbian America were farmers, not hunter-gatherers.

So yes, it had been established in the thread that we were discussing people who lived here before European Invasion. And Rooves knew he was being a jackass in the thread:

Sorry for being a jackass.

BTW, to this:

Historical revisionism based on the application of 21st century Western morality on 15th century societies; like iamphuna comment regarding the European royal interbreeding.

My post wasn’t meant to indicate any sense of lack of morality, dickweed. It was meant to show stupidity breeding stupidity. And if you think my sense of morality is so heavily in tune with 21st century Western morality, let’s see some proof:p