Rude collection agents/creditor nightmares

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Where I work, many clients call who are struggling with their debts. Often-times the debts are in collections or in the process of litigation.

I have heard some fascinating and horrifying stories about credit problems. General trends I’ve encountered:

–People who move into a new apartment and are held responsible for the debt of the previous tenant, or the debt of a roommate, where no amount of explanation seems to suffice and the innocent party is pursued to the point of litigation, shut off of utilities, etc regardless of the fact that they aren’t the responsible party.

–Collection agents becoming verbally abusive, swearing and using all manner of tactics to try to get the debtor to pay up – calling debtors stupid, liars, belonging in a crazyhouse, etc – stuff completely beyond the realm of professional.

–An outright refusal to provide information about the debt, refusal to disclose the balance due or provide information about even where the debt came from. Their sole purpose seems to be tricking the debtor into making a statement that can be remotely construed as ‘‘I refuse to pay this debt’’ and then distorting reality to create the impression of a hostile debtor.

–Lying about the debtor’s options. For example, many debt collection agents say, ‘‘We refuse to negotiate with 3rd party credit counselors’’ but it’s simply not true because they often end up doing just that.

I admit that things were bad enough in my financial life at one point that I owed money to debt collectors. But they were never anything other than polite and understanding and willing to work with me. In fact, I owe quite a large debt of gratitude (ha!) to a few in particular that stand out to me.

I am a person who advocates that people take responsibility for their debts and pay them off accordingly, but it seems that if someone owed you money, you would try to establish a good relationship with them to try to get it back, not harass them to the point that they stop answering their phone. I also get the feeling that what a debt collector tells you must be done, and what the actual law is, probably are very different things.

I am trying to comprehend how debt collectors can get away with being unprofessional dickwads… and I am also curious to know if anything like this has happened to any Dopers out there. I am sort of wondering how common it is. As I have mentioned before, it doesn’t jibe with personal experience. And anyone who has been a debt collector, or who has any knowledge about the law in this area would be welcomed to contribute as well.

Thanks,
Christy

2

I had a similar problem when I got my work-provided cell phone. They kept calling back after I’d told them that I had only recently gotten the number and suggested that if this person hadn’t paid them, it was a safe bet they hadn’t paid their cell phone bill either. They were never rude and would apologize but then they’d call back in a week or so. This when on for a few months. They finally quit calling after I offered to have my company bill them for the minutes they were causing me to burn.

3

My husband and I own a small house which we rent out. Our current tenants are being pestered by collection agents who won’t believe that they aren’t the same people as our previous tenants, and have no idea where the previous tenants went. It’s as if collection agencies are not aware that an address may be occupied by new people every few years, and the new people never even met the old people.

4

I had a pretty persistent one go after me for a roommate’s debt AFTER I had been signed off the lease. Their argument was that since they failed to secure a new lease with the remaining tenant, and let him live there for some 8 odd months, I ought to pay. I sent several faxes and played the game where nobody was the person in charge. Finally, I was to have a phone appointment with the owner of the property who was of course unreachable at appointment time. I left them a message stating that I was calling per our agreement and that if they failed to return my call within 24 hrs I would consider the matter completely dropped and would not provide any further information to them as their representative signed me off the lease. (did I mention that this was like three years after I had moved out?). They never called back, the debt collector blocked MY number, and I found that they filed against the errant roomie.

5

For the last six weeks or so I’ve been getting daily messages from a collection agency that is looking for someone else. Each message is the same: “We are calling for ‘Paul Notyourlastname.’ If you are not ‘Paul Notyourlastname,’ please disregard this message.” The message continues to state that by failing to hang up, I am acknowledging that I am “Paul Notyourlastname.” Like that would hold up in court. Sure, I could have called the company back and explained that they had the wrong number, but that’s the last thing I want to do after a long day at work. Maybe I’ll do it tomorrow (the company has been leaving messages on Sundays, too).

My mom received a nasty phone call last year from a collection agency that claimed she owed a $600 debt from 1987. When my mom pointed out that her credit report said nothing about this alleged 20-year-old debt, the representative told her “it’s going on there now!” The representative informed my mom that she needed to send a check immediately if she wanted to avoid legal action. Fortunately mom was smart enough not to admit to anything. She demanded that the company send written evidence of the debt. About a week later she received a paper in the mail that basically stated what she was told over the phone: you owe a $600 debt on a Snapper lawnmower from 1987. I helped Mom draft a letter demanding real proof of the debt (account numbers, payments applied, etc.) I guess the information wasn’t available, because a few weeks later Mom received another notice that said the collection agency was dropping the matter.

Two months ago my mother was going through her old financial statements (she never throws anything away) and found a canceled check from 1987 that paid off her account with Snapper. Too bad she didn’t find it earlier – she could have sent a copy to the collection agency.

6

Almost immediately after I moved in October 2006 I started getting calls from collection agencies who were trying to reach Karen X at my phone number. I would call back and explain that I had just gotten the number they were calling and that I had no information about Karen X. They would apologize and promise to take my number off their records. A few months later I would start getting calls again; since I hadn’t kept the numbers that had been calling me before, I can’t confirm that it was the same agencies, but after I explained the situation and mentioned the earlier calls I once again was told they would remove my number from their records. This went on for about a year, but now they seem to have stopped.

7

Does anybody know how much you have to owe before they take you to court? I “owed” over $500 to a cell phone company. Most was in fees, not use of the service. Basically, when Cingular bought AT&T, the Feds didn’t approve the merger in a few markets, the one where my phone number was was one of them, despite the fact I didn’t live there anymore. I was to be shifted to Alltel, which at the time was a cell company for old people. They wanted me to trade in my GSM Nokia 9500 for a crappy TDMI phone that only works in the United States. I said no, and wanted out; as Alltel didn’t even serve the state I lived in most of the time. Anyway, I could never get anything out of the employees, because they didn’t even know who was paying them at that point. I considered the matter closed, and signed with T-Mobile.

I was contacted a couple years later by a collection agency who wanted their $500+ and who didn’t give a damn about the original situation. I basically told them to piss up a rope, and that I would gladly go to court on principle. They harassed me for a year or so, off and on, but most of the conversations ended with me trying to explain the situation and then telling them to F-off when it became apparent that the collection drone didn’t care.

Anyway, I never got sued, so I don’t know what it would take to actually get sued by a collection agency. It might be on my credit report; I don’t know. My bank extends credit based on whether or not your grand pappy paid his mortgage on time, so credit score doesn’t mean a whole lot to me.

8

It varies from collector to collector, but I’ve had some debts up to $2k before that never got past annoying calls. Litigation was threatened a few times, but it never materialized.

olivesmarch4th, much of what you describe could potentially be in violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA), depending on what was said and who said it, and to whom. IANAL, but I have had some success with collectors in the past by knowing my rights and using it to my advantage. The problem is that many people just don’t know the rights that they do have, and collectors who know that have no problem pushing the limit. It might behoove you and your clients to read up on the act to see if it applies to any specific situation. Again, IANAL, just someone who’s had luck against some shady people by being aware.

9

We’ve had two issues with collectors lately that are worth complaining about.

First, we moved into a house in December. The previous tenants were pretty much useless, seeing as how a church owns the house and they screwed the church out of 1500(ish) in rent, the city out of 700(ish) in back water/sewage bills (which is especially bad since the guy is a city employee), and in January we signed up for cable/phone. The number was listed at this address, so phone calls started coming in. They were for the previous tenant, wanting to collect the amount owed to a credit card. Finally, they stopped calling when my wife told them again that he did not live here, but we have all the contact information now if they do call back.

The other is a little worse. Last summer, my wife was a patient at one of (IMHO) the most ridiculous hospitals in the country. They screwed up an extremely large amount of stuff, such as sending us bills for appointments during months when we had no appointments or visits, or neglecting to tell my wife about several serious conditions during her pregnancy. I was never a patient and never signed anything there. My wife was there in her name, insurance was in her name, and she explained to them that she was financially responsible for her bills. Now, almost a year later, I got a letter from some debt collector in Toledo. I called the hospital and their billing said they never had a bill that was sent to collections in my name, or my wife’s, yet this debt collector claims that I owe 350 some dollars for an account at the hospital in my name. Odd, once I asked for verification about when the debt was created, or even the actual bill from the hospital, they have not contacted me once. So far, nothing is on my credit report from them, but I will keep watching to be safe.

Brendon Small

10

There’s not much you can do about the tools who keep calling your phone number looking for someone else. If you actually speak to them on the phone, their first assumption will be that you are lying about being the person they want or knowing such a person. And to be slightly fair, there are more than enough assholes out there dodging their responsibilities that I can see where that perspective comes from. However, they also have access to quite a lot of personal data (thanks, LEXIS/NEXIS :rolleyes: ) so they can check, to some extent, whether you’re being honest or not. Some are just lazy and don’t bother. The real problem is when a public database is screwed up, because your ability to fix that (as opposed to your personal credit records) is practically non-existent.

Back when I did try to reason with a few of the more obnoxious collectors (including an attorney), I finally got fed up enough to say the following: “I know that I’m not the person you’re looking for, and that I don’t know them. You don’t believe me; fair enough. If, however, I do know [name of debtor], you’re violating their rights under the FDCPA not to have the details of their debt disclosed to a third party, every time you call me. That’s a $1000 violation a phone call, buddy. How do you like your odds?” That’s worked pretty well in stemming the tide. I only get the annoying prerecorded ones now.

By the way, if you are having issues with personal debt STAY OFF THE PHONE and NEVER PROVIDE PERSONAL INFO, ESPECIALLY BANK ACCOUNT INFO (which can be gotten off canceled checks, btw). Insist on dealing with collectors only in writing; often that will get the junk debt collectors (who may only have your phone number and not your address associated with a debtor) off your case. If someone says you owe a debt, make them prove it; you don’t have to give them any documentation whatsoever. This is important, because debts can be sold many times - you have the right to determine that whoever is asking for money actually owns your debt right now.

There are a lot of unscrupulous junk debt collectors out there who will pull all sorts of crap and rely on people being too intimidated/ demoralized/ ignorant of their rights to protect themselves from being taken advantage of.

11

I had a debt collector call frequently for an employee. I hate hate hate telephones ringing and I hate hate hate being interrupted in my work so this was irritating. My office happens to be a distance from the general work area so when the debt collector rang just after I had walked in one morning and asked me wether the employee was there, I truthfully answered that I wasn’t sure. Miss Twentysomething promptly pulled out the sarcasm and said, “Well is she or isn’t she?”, the implication being, I assume, that I was covering for the employee. My head spun round. I mean, one too many irritating calls and now she gets sarky with me? No. Nononono.

I told her quick smart that it was irrelevant wether the employee was at work or not because I’m her goddam boss and I won’t let her take time out from her duties attending to patients to answer a personal call so Stop. Goddam. Calling.

12

My name is the Hispanic version of Bob Smith, and every couple of years I get calls from some collection agency or another. The thing that really pisses me off is when they won’t tell me what the actual bills are for. What’s up with that? I always tell them not to call me again, to send me something in writing, and I’ve had to send letters to the CA Attorney General regarding two companies. (In those cases, they stopped contacting me after that).

13

I spoke too soon; this afternoon I got a call from Sears asking for Karen X. They promised to delete my number from their records.

14

Hi LurkMeister,

Say, did anyone call for me while I was out?

Thanks,
Karen-with-an-X

15

I agree with you completely. I work at a call center myself and I am quite familiar with the customer service/service excellence training we provide and the strength to which those guidelines are enforced. So, I am shocked when some employers allow this kind of treatment.

Also, I am left in quite amazement at the fact that some collectors are astonished to (1) find that this kind of treatment is given, (2) deny all knowledge of such things, (3) are awestruck when the treatment of the debtor may be a reason for hesitation to pay a debt (I know I would not willingly want to deal with a collection company again with that kind of abuse!).

16

When I turned 18 I took any credit card that was offered to me. And used them. By the time I was 22 I had only 2 left, the rest having been paid off and cards cut. One remaining card was for Daytons/Target, very minimal credit line. It ended up going into judgment, totally my stupidity. Approximately a month after the judgment was filed I (being young and stupid) walked into my local Target, asked what the balance was, and paid it off.

I didn’t think to do anything further. Five years later I look at my credit report and the judgment was still on there. I had to contact a bank where I closed my account a few years prior, obtain a copy of the check, go through Target’s legal drones, fight to not pay interest that accumulated in that 5 years, &c. It took almost another year for it to be deemed satisfied. When I was calling them to resolve it they kept asking where I was employed, additional phone numbers, name of my parents. Uh, no.

Now I’m dealing with the financial mess my exassroomie left. He’s defaulted on a cell phone contract. One day, after they called three times looking for his sorry butt, I snapped. Gave the collector the whole Springer-esque story - they haven’t called back. Anyone else who calls for him is told to call me back when they find him so I can take a piece of his hide also. :slight_smile:

17

I’d like to recommend to everyone Stanley Elkin’s short story “I Look Out For Ed Wolfe.”

Phone debt collectors are essentially telemarketers selling personal misery, often to complete strangers who are astonished that anyone might think they were in the market. Their tactics are misleading and bullying and as shockingly brutal when they are mistargeted as a nun with an arrow through her head. But their targets, though often wrong, are not random or malicious, and few of us have compassionate feelings about the low-lifes who borrowed money from us and never paid it back.

Creditors should be more cognizant of the current era of personal portability, and if such were taken into account no doubt less money might have been lent to begin with, but it’s silly to pretend large financial corporations stuffed to the rafters with MBAs hadn’t calculated their P&L long ago, and so isn’t it a little dishonest to claim the right to use outrageous methods to recoup easily predictable losses, especially when the likelihood of actual repayment is remote?

Um, yes (I think: I may have lost track of the original question), but it’s still more dishonest to solicit goods and services and not pay for them. I like to think that as ubiquitous and scattershot as these calls are, the real deadbeats are getting terrorized by their fair share of them too. And they can’t easily shrug them off by proving their true, debt-ridden, identity.

18

What I’m trying to figure out is whether it will help me out to give the debtor’s contact info. Here’s the deal, I know under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act that if they call neighbors, etc., they’re not supposed to call back if the person can truly assert that they don’t know the whereabouts of that person - plus it’s against the Do Not Call provisions if they harass someone with calls who they don’t have any legitimate business with.

So… the former debtor used to live upstairs. I’m assuming we’re getting the calls because we’re in the databases as a “neighbor.” We also are the brother (my husband) and sister-in-law (me) of her, and I don’t know if she gave our number as a reference/alternate contact. Without going into all the gory details, she owes a whole ton of money to people. My husband can’t really disclose her current address since he works for the USPS and there are legal issues there. We didn’t have a current phone number for her until not long ago, but now we have her cell phone at least.

(Worse yet, she owes us a significant chunk of change. I doubt we’re going to see that again.)

Anyway, here’s the first question: If I give the creditors her cell phone number, will they have legal standing to continue contacting me if she doesn’t call them? After all, I’ve shown knowledge of her current whereabouts, so how do they know I don’t have more information?

Second question - I thought under the FDCPA, they couldn’t reveal to another party or on an answering machine that they were trying to collect a debt. Yet one of the callers leaves automated messages saying “under the law, we are required to inform you that we are attempting to collect a debt.”

19

Another question:

Twice now, we’ve failed to receive statements for a credit card. What I mean is, we have a credit card that we normally get statements in the mail for, but then they mysteriously don’t show up for 3 months in a row. And, because we have other bills, I fail to notice their absence. So then we get a call from the collections agent wondering where the hell their money is. And this has happened now with two separate cards. No change of address, all the other mail arrives safely.

Luckily, both times we happened to have enough cash on hand to cover 3 months back payments and late fees. A rare event. Which makes me wonder if this isn’t some ploy to create an excuse to jack our interest rates up? Or maybe my mailman is incompetent only sometimes?

20

Anyone remember The Simpsons episode where Bart says, “Lise, I can’t believe you’re trying to talk to bill collectors without my help.”?

My credit is flawless, except for…well, that was not something I could have planned for. Legally, I’m in the clear, yet I still get endless automated phone calls (some outfit claiming to be a legal firm {!} is the worst offender). Now, I realize this sort of thing could be nontrivial if I were a business, but since I’m not a business, it’s kinda neat to keep these dirtbags on the line for as long as possible, and also convince them to spend money on postal charges to send bills that go like this: them–>me–>recycling bin–>China (a portion of the proceeds go to the local public school, which maintains the recycling bin).

This is multiply satisfying, since I happen to have the same last name as someone else who is a for-real scofflaw! AND, the same phone number of at least two other debtors!

Doing my part to make life difficult for the right people since ****. :wink: