Rumsfeld: "It will be a long, hard slog."

Right on. I think the value of leaders deciding things in secret after arguing them out with their advisors and then presenting a united front in public is vastly overrated. This is how decisions are made by military planners for combat operations in a war, but political actions are not equivalent to war.

It seems to me that is might much more valuable to have the public know the various points of view that the political leadership argued over than to have it seem as if the way that was finally picked and publically presented is the “only way to do this.”

In the case of Iraq, it would seem that Bush, Rummy, Wolfie, Perle et al had long ago decided that Hussein had to go, for reasons that we, the public, don’t know. And they hopped on the first even remotely plausible excuse. And, shamefully in my opinion, the Congress fell into line with practically no debate.

I think the public at large is more sophisticated than generally aknowledged. I don’t think that the public knowing that there were several different points of view considered would harm confidence in the leaders at all. I think most people are aware that there are differences as to what should be done in any particular case and that one of the possibilities has to be selected or nothing is done. And to do nothing is also a decision, as most people also know.

Didn’t we go through this in Vietnam, with McNamara having secret doubts about the conduct of that war, almost from the beginning?

Don’t worry Ashtar… the sheep won’t be reading your comments here… well not many at least.

Lemur is just trying to protect the sheep… I mean the Bush voters…

Hey, my comment was partially directed at you Rashak…after all you advocated assassinating Rumsfeld in another thread.

(** Lemur ** and ** Rashak **: relax. Have a beverage… or take it to the Pit if you don’t have a refreshing Sierra Mist handy.)

I think this memo is a view into the hypermanly psychology of Don Rumsfeld. Described as a “macho man” by close friends, and a “cantankerous egomanic” by less-close-friends, he just can’t bear to be beaten at anything by anyone.
Even by members of his own (Bush) team.

This is why **Elvisl1ves ** called it a suicide note: Rummy would rather break the administrations Wall of Denial by admitting that it is remotely possible that their current strategy (based on the old “The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves” joke) is crap, rather than be taken down a notch by Rice and Bush.

Remember when Donny Boy ran for Prez in 1988? Or when Dick Cheney was his underling in the Ford Administration? or was it the Nixon admin.? I forget. But the point is that Rumsfeld sure hasn’t.

Back when the Iraq Wars still seemed like a cakewalk thru happyland, one of Don’s aids was saying Don would make a great VP if Cheney was too ill. I’m sure Don is planning ahead and getting a hint o’ vengence at the same time:
Leaking this memo, and making Bush/Cheney 04, Inc. (rather than Don) look like a buncha assholes who had no plan, reduces Don’s potential to become the fall guy who’s fired to remove the Iraqi albatross from around Bush’s neck.

Well its hard to kill him if he is comitting “suicide”… :slight_smile: Can barely wait to see Rummies solo flight getting hit by flak.

So Possum... the memo was a shot at Bush (or Rice) ? Its obvious its some internal power struggle... but who is shooting who ?

I admit I didn’t think the “suicide” comment out that well before writing it. The various interpretations of it here reflect only their authors’ thoughts.

But it does look to me like Rummy is looking to bail, in such a way as to leave all the blame for what is almost undeniably looking like a historically-massive cockup on the other philosophical “side”. By getting this memo out first, he can make it look like he knew the score all along and was reluctantly almost coerced into going along. The longer he stays in place, the less able he’ll be to avoid sharing a place in history with Robert McNamara, if it isn’t already too late. He certainly could not have done this without a political/personal purpose in mind, not in Washington - or perhaps I’ve just read too many novels.

Speaking of which, is anyone aware of anything that eminent statesman has said about this latest episode? Anything about “remembering the past”, perhaps?

So its not political suicide… its a political parachuting out attempt ? More or less what I thought.

Nope. I remember that most of us opponents of the war were expecting a fairly quick win on the battlefield, and we were far more concerned with the aftermath.

Back before the shooting began, I predicted a two-week war.

Some did predict Baghdad would be a very bloody battle. No one seriously doubted we would win, of course, but there were many who thought we’d be fighting a long time.

They were right, but as usual in war, not in the way they expected.

Its not Stalingrad or Somalia… but its a become a ongoing urban battle nonetheless…

I think it is like Beirut would have been if we’d stayed.

This is from an article on the Defense Department’s website – dated October 8, 2003:

Now wait a minute. What is it we’re slogging through?

Why is it that journalists can tell us that it looks a little bleak and scary in Iraq and Bush supporters don’t believe it? But Rumsfeld can change his tune in sixteen days and it is finally widely accepted?

If tomorrow Rumsfeld said that he has been misquoted and misunderstood and that his memo meant that we are sliding through the problems in Iraq and that our success is so great that it is immeasurable, would Conservatives again return to the fold?

“Oh wait. Is that the right metaphor?” Zoe asked sheepishly.

YOu can slog through fighting while still making progress on the political and rebuilding fronts. When a soldier dies in Fallujah, the other 100,000 don’t drop what they are doing from Basrah all the way to Kirkuk any more than you stop going to work because someone was murdered in your city.

Baaah, Zoe! Bad puns are scorned by we of the Board, Shirley, ewe know better than that!

(This sort of trend of hyperinflated simile could lead to jokes about sheep and the “True Scotsman”. We must be vigilant.)

Most people are sheep. And most of the remainder are sheep in wolves’ clothing.

I prefer to be human… :slight_smile: Don’t like being shorn.

I thought it was dogs, sheep and pigs. :confused:

No, no, no. It was foxes, chickens, and bags of grain.

Fred Kaplan concentrates less on Rumsfeld’s motives than on the document’s meaning:

And not just them, but the Usual Suspects right here, too.

Is it really that much of a discovery? We pretty much already knew that either 1) they were privately aware of how bad the situation was in Iraq but denied it to save face, or 2) they were absolutely and completely mad, or 3) both of the preceding.

This memo narrows it down to possibilities 1 and 3.