It could simply have been for diplomatic reasons. Russia was opposed to the war. Perhaps they made it clear that if the U.S. wanted any help at all, they couldn’t disclose it.
What are the alternatives? We know two facts - one, that Russia told the U.S. a year before the war that Saddam was planning attacks on U.S. soil and other U.S. interests. We also know that Putin chose until now to release this information.
If the information was mistaken, that does not explain the delay. There must be a reason why he felt that he didn’t have to say anything before, and a reason why he decided to speak up now. Really, the number of explanations for this, absent any other facts, is gigantic. Perhaps Bush leaned on Putin to help him out in the election. Perhaps Putin himself wants Bush re-elected, so he volunteered the information. Perhaps he revealed it because it was about to come out in some other way, which would make him look bad. We really have no idea.
But let’s say, for the sake of argument, that the intelligence was real, and the Bush administration had solid information, which it couldn’t reveal, that Saddam was preparing to attack the United States. Would that change your mind on the war?
Well… I guess that’s an easier way of doing business than actually pretending he gives a damn what anyone outside his cabinet thinks.
At any rate, the question is: DID SADDAM PLAN TERRORIST ACTIVITY AGAINST THE US?
I wouldn’t be at all surprised. We know he tried to arrange for the assassination of Bush Sr. more than a decade ago.
He’s not the only one, either. I personally have long-term plans in place to kick the living crap out of Osama Bin Laden. Yup. Gonna have him kidnapped, disarmed, and delivered to my backyard, where I will demonstrate the comparative ineffectiveness of the terrorist against a foe who is not tied, blindfolded, or taken by surprise, and who is armed just as effectively as his opponent.
I figure it’ll be a massacre. Warms my heart, just thinkin’ about it. Especially when I think about what the videotape will sell for!
The fact that I have planned it, though, does not in any way provide me with independent transatlantic capability, money, weaponry, intel, or much of anything else.
The fact remains that my actual capability to carry out my extensive plans remains… effectively… zero.
And I have yet to see **any hard evidence ** that Saddam had any more capability to screw me over than I have to screw Osama Bin Laden at this very moment.
Someone do call and wake me up if we ever find any.
Nitpick: We know that Russia told the U.S. a year before the war that they believed Saddam was planning attacks on U.S. soil and other U.S. interests. We still have not ascertained if this belief was correct or not.
Why bother with this fruitless hypothetical line of inquiry? There are no secrets left in Iraq for the Bushies to find; it’s not as if Bush and Cheney are simply stalling for time, hoping next week that the details of Saddam’s Master Anti-American Scheme will finally get found in a hidden bunker somewhere. And heaven knows, if Bush actually had any “solid information,” they would have been flogging it all over Fox News long before now.
Putin’s “revelation” might have carried water before the war started; now, it’s just a statistically insignificant molehill, blown to mountainous proportions by folks desperate to find stuff to salvage Bush’s folly.
As a democracy, I’m sorry, but I won’t take someone’s good word that there is a good cause to go to war. Wars tend to be rather permanent and irreversable. Once started, there is no, “oops, I’m sorry, we made a mistake, lets set it up like it was.” This is one of those things where you err on the side of caution. If it is a huge enough secret, there will be other ways to find it.
People are engaging in all kinds of other lines of inquiry. Including you.
Wow. That’s a sweeping statement. Between the regime having plenty of time to prepare for war, and the looting that happened during the invasion (“looting”, much of which was apparently directed at sensitive files in government agencies), and the sheer size of the country, there could be LOTS of secrets left in Iraq. For instance, we just found out a few days ago that SA-2 missile engines wound up in a scrapyard in the Netherlands. No one knew how they got there. That certainly opens the door to other materials being discovered, don’t you think?
Unless, of course, Russia gave them the information on the condition that they not disclose it publically.
Now THAT is a ridiculous statement. The leader of another country comes out and says that his intelligence agency believedd that Saddam was planning to attack the United States, and you write it off as ‘statistically insignificant’??? Oh, as a matter of technicality, ‘statistically insignificant’ is a meaningless phrase to use when discussing non-statistical data.
What we need to learn is what specifically this intelligence was. How solid was it? What was the nature of the attacks? How advanced were the plans? If it turns out to be some vague info fed to Russia from the INC, then I’ll join you in saying it’s irrelevant. On the other hand, if it’s direct information from a KGB Mole buried inside the regime, and it’s multipally sourced and/or there is other documentary evidence, then this is a BIG DAMNED DEAL. It’s too early to say right now, but your sweeping dismissal of all of this before the facts are in says more about your personal bias than anything else.
Now there’s an interesting possibility. If Iranian intelligence was actively massaging data and feeding BS to the U.S., it’s possible that they were feeding it to other countries as well. I would hope any investigation into Putin’s claim would strongly consider the possibility that whatever evidence he has was planted.
I heard a whiff of this before the war. What they aren’t telling you now is that, Iraq had plans considering covert “terrorist” actions against the US, as a contingency in its war fighting efforts. A tactic.
There was no stand alone plan, or any sort of thing pre-existing the threat of invasion by the US.
We know no such thing. We have a single uncorroborated claim by a single head of state who has a particular interest in seeing the current U.S. president re-elected.
I see no reason to accept his claim without actual evidence. (And given the administration’s utter silence on the subject until Putin’s remarks despite the great leverage it would have given them and their past history of manufacturing “evidence,” I will not be surprised if they manufacture some evidence to support this claim, as well.)
If, against all odds, there really was a credible report of anti-U.S. terrorist acts plotted by Hussein and reported to the U.S. intelligence services, the attacks would have to be of a size similar to the WTC attack and have some actual chance of succeeding before they could be legitimately used as a cause for war. (Otherwise, it would be perfectly legitimate for most of Central America and several countries in Africa to wage war against the U.S. Certainly, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Panama have a right to inflict as much damage on us as they can muster for acts of war that the U.,S. has egregiously inflicted on them in the past 25 years (perhaps seeking support among a “coalition of the willing” of other nations to raise the required firepower).)
Channeling Muhammed Ali: “I can turn off the light and be in bed before the lights go out.”
And he was just going to bed. (Of course, his bedside companion might have been worth the speed.)
Where did you read that? The reports I’ve read indicated no such thing. For instance, The Times of Oman mentioned above, quotes Putin:
Nowhere in there does Putin imply that the terrorist attacks were a contingency in case of a U.S. invasion. And the way it is phrased, “AFTER Sept 11, and BEFORE the start of the military operation in Iraq, repeatedly” would tend to indicate otherwise.
You can tell us, Sam. We’re all friends here. Did you ever, ever, in your wildest dreams, imagine you would be defending the trustworthiness and candor of Vladimir Putin! KGB operative and vampire bat, Vladimir Putin.
Good heavens, Sam, behold the state to which you are fallen! If you persist in defending these people, this is not the last humiliation you will bear, nor the least. Repent! while there is still time!
My conspiracy theory: VP is offering Bush a prop so GeeDubya will owe him one. Now, Putin can change his mind at any time, he doesn’t worry about flip-flopping, 'cause he doesn’t worry about elections. So if GeeDubya refers to him as “Pooty-Poot” one more time, he will rue the day.
Well an off hand ‘flip-flop’ on a matter like this would do harm to Putin’s credibility as a world leader – unless he comes up with a good reason I doubt this is a ‘what me worry’ flip-flop situation. If this is a lie, it is one that seems pretty elaborate from what Putin has said so far — with the reported plans to attack both on and off US soil, both military and civilian targets, the multiple contacts, and the contact with the President. This would necessatate a pretty elaborate flip-flop if that’s a long-term Putin option. Also, even if Putin doesn’t worry about elections at home – even North Korea’s Great Leader worries about his hair.
Now where did you get the impression that I’m defending his trustworthiness? I said we should reserve judgement until we get more information, and I specifically questioned the interpretation of one of his statements.
I’m under no illusions about Putin. If he could come up with a way to mislead you, and a motive for doing it, he wouldn’t hesitate.
But in this case it’s hard to see a motive. Why does he want Bush re-elected? I thought Bush was the guy who ignored Russia’s desires and attacked Saddam. Bush is the one pushing them to forgive their debts.
But we don’t have enough information yet to make any determination. We don’t know what the evidence is. We don’t know who the sources are. We don’t know anything. But the statement itself is big news, no matter which way it goes. When the head of state of a country comes out and says something like that, you take it seriously, albeit skeptically.
Putin said that the Russian agencies shared information with the U.S. agencies (with neither Putin nor Bush involved–and certainly without Putin being the bearer of the information). Following which, Putin claims that Bush (presumably informed of this information sharing) thanked one of the Russian executives for the information.
Had Putin supplied the information to Bush, then it would have made more sense for Bush to thank Putin, directly. Nothing in Putin’s comments provides a basis for assuming that Bush was involved in the exchange, other than to acknowledge it after the fact.
No, the leader of another country comes out and says his intelligence agency passed along information alleging Saddam was planning to attack the United States. A subtle but important difference.
It’s too early to say right now, yet it looks like every other post from you on this topic assumes the information is completely reliable and vindicates the Administration’s push for war.
As for my “sweeping dismissal,” I find it very suspicious that the Bush Administration hasn’t been touting this brand-spankin’ new revelation about Saddam’s Sinister Schemes™ prior to Putin’s announcement today. Everything we’ve seen from this Administration indicates that their long silence on this matter indicates that even they don’t believe it’s strong enough to present to the populace. Your unwavering insistence on clinging to this shred of unverified data says more about your personal bias than anything else.
I’ll allow the reader to fill in the dots provided by these disparate pieces of information, but let me simply say that, should Bush win reelection next year, I wouldn’t be surprised at all to discover a few months later some Russian contractor or another – probably one in which Putin has a large financial interest – unexpectedly winning a fat reconstruction contract from the DoD.