I don’t speak Ukrainian. Why don’t you translate for us.
“The West wants — and this is how it all began — to seize control of Ukraine because of their own political ambitions, not in the interests of the Ukrainian people,” Lavrov said.
Obviously true. Does Russia? More than likely. It’s a geopolitical play at the highest possible stakes. Though once again, this is playing in Russia’s “red line.”
Sending Russia into oblivion is simply a pipe dream. WW III however, isn’t.
Why would I need to have an opinion on the thoughts of some random person you found trolling for cites on the internet? If you think he is some expert in the field, and we should pay attention to his careful analysis, then make your case. All I know about him is that he’s a Truther, and I don’t see any reason to listen to a Truther any more than I’d listen to Dick Cheney on the subject.
This is “Great Debates”. Not “Let’s Quote Random Nutcases We Found Trolling on the Internet for People Who Agree with Us”.
My eyes tell a Russian? Ukrainian? speaking man was assaulted and dumped into a body of water by another Russian or Ukrainian speaking man in a ski mask. I agree with CarnalK that a translation would definitely be in order. Then I might at least know who is on what side.
They – supposedly Right Sector - are attacking a Russian speaking man, taunting him and forcing him to say some Ukrainian slogans, dumping him in the water at the end. The water is cold, it might well have killed him but probably didn’t. There’re a lot of such videos around. Such assaults are definitely taking place but you can’t use YouTube videos to show extend.
TL;DR The corrupt Yanukovych flip flopping on joining the EU and interference from Russia into Ukraine’s sovereign affairs is what started the original protests.
Yanukovych gets elected promising to join the EU. Russia pressures him to change his mind by making threats if Ukraine joins, and rewards if it doesn’t. Cite
So far I see Russia interfering with a nation’s right to do what they want, but not the US or the rest of the west. And the majority of Ukrainians wanted to join the EU.
Cite
But partially due to Russian pressure, and Yanukovych’s own corruption.
Oh, some more proof of his corruption, Cite
Putin tried to get Yanukovych to quash the Maidan protests.
Thank you. That was very helpful. I have learned quite a lot about Russian and Ukrainian politics during the last few weeks, mostly to my dismay. Let me state for record that I think Right Sector is a bunch of thugs, and that Slobodka is little better. I also do not believe that either are representative of most participants in the Euromaiden protests. I also stand by my belief that Russia’s annexation of Crimea was illegal, that the referendum supporting the annexation lacked democratic legitimacy, and that the Russian government is intentionally destabilizing the situation to further its own agenda.
I see you don’t have an argument for or against what he wrote.
Why should I? All you did was quote him. What’s your argument for or against what he wrote? You’re the one who quoted him.
So then to be clear, you’re arguing that a truther he blames 911 on Jewish conspiracy theories is a reliable source?
Please explain why?
If this American you’re quoting is such a bigoted moron and so ignorant of his own country that he thinks 911 was due to a Jewish conspiracy then why should I find his views on another country reliable?
Has he feed been there?
Does he speak Russian?
Can he even tell the difference between spoken Russian and spoken Ukrainian?
What are his qualifications that are so strong they cause you to ignore the fact that he’s a truther he believes in Jewish conspiracy theories and decide he’s not a nut but a reliable source?
This is the third time I’ve asked and I’ve been polite so do me the courtesy of asking?
[quote=“Ibn_Warraq, post:2770, topic:682513”]
So then to be clear, you’re arguing that a truther he blames 911 on Jewish conspiracy theories is a reliable source?
QUOTE] I mentioned nothing about 911 and it was not in the cite I provided. I did not provide Raimondo to establish or verify a fact. I provided an expression of opinion related to this thread. If you disagree with his opinion on that please explain why.
I believe the interim government in Kiev should demonstrate how it will move toward more autonomy for all its regions rather than starting a shooting war by trying to drive the separatists out of occupied buildings with a very unwise military type attack. The interim government should allow a proper and observed referendum as Justin Raimondo described.
Do you think the interim government in Kiev should start a shooting war by attacking the Ukrainian separatists who are occupying buildings and refusing to leave based upon accepting the Kiev government at their word,
[quote=“NotfooledbyW, post:2771, topic:682513”]
He explained why. Ibn doesn’t trust this person’s interpretations because this guy’s interpretations of other things are obnoxiously wrong. Please explain why you trust this guy’s opinion… is what’s being asked of you.
At this point, yes. They have to show some resolve here or Russia and the minority that wants to join Russia is just going to roll through them. Kiev has been left with little choice.
What is your source for Justin Raimondo being a Truther?
He is not mentioned here: 9/11 truth movement - Wikipedia
And do you believe Carl Cameron and Brett Hume at Fox News are ‘truthers’?
Where does Raimondo blame 911 on Jewish conspiracy theories?
You really don’t know much about this guy you chose to use as your source do you
You really ought to be more careful who’s opinions you’ve chosen to value.
When you value truthers who believe in Jewish conspiracy theories you don’t help yourself.
To be fair, I have yet to see a poll giving Right Sector more than 3% of the popular vote. I doubt that they have any real power - it’s just that in times like this the more ruthless groups are able to punch above their weight.
While we may be late getting the news here I hadn’t heard or read that the Russians had invaded the Ukraine. Certainly they had troops in the Crimea but that was part of a treaty agreement.
What I had heard was that various US and EU ministers/officials had been in Kiev and helped instigate the overthrow of a democratically elected government but perhaps that doesn’t count?
Educate me. Where does Raimondo blame 911 on Jewish conspiracy theories? And why is Raimondo not mentioned in Wikipedia’s references to all the 9/11 Truthers? Do you think Brett Hume and Carl Cameron of Fox News are Truthers?
Duly noted there is an ‘and’ there between “Russia’s economic pressure and European stinginess”. Was it proper to threaten the life of the elected president of Ukraine for changing his mind?
And is it only ‘economic pressure’ when Russia applies it? What is it called when the EU applies ‘pressure’ on Ukraine to do something?