Please provide some backup for your obvious error in thinking that the separatist movement in Crimea came with Putin’s offer to absorbe $15 billion in Kiev’s debts which came a few months prior to the Crimea popular uprising.
What blockade and interdiction came with Putin’s offer to absorbe $15 billion in Kiev’s debt?
Kentucky is in the top ten Red States that benefits more from Blue State Taxpayers:
OCT. 25 2012 10:07 AM. Blue State, Red Face: Guess Who Benefits More From Your Taxes? By Michael Moran
I wonder if the Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine are in the same federal welfare condition as Kentucky is in the USA.
Eh, they don’t speak for all Eastern Ukrainians, do they?
Time will tell; you’re the only person I’ve seen proposing massive artillery strikes on civilians, so I doubt it’ll be that.
It certainly is, as a result of laws from the '30s and and '60s, something that’s unrelated to Obama beating Romney in 2012. I can only guess at your point.
If the area’s poor, and there’s a variety of federal assistance programs for the poor, then probably. I’ll leave that for you to research.
The anti-Maidan folks obviously do not see the violent overthrow of their elected leader as a non-issue as you do. So I’ll defer to them to deal with it however they choose.
So if they “choose” a war along ethinic lines, you are totally cool with it. It is completely justified by the ouster of a guy who was, by all rational measure, a totally corrupt, shameless kleptocrat. The fact that elections are only a few weeks away has no bearing on this, of course.
Even though, by your own admission by silence, they have no actual, real oppression to complain of, an ethnic-based war is something you will “defer” to. It isn’t like ethnic warfare in Europe has ever had a bad result in the past … :smack:
Round and round the mulberry bush, the monkey chased the weasel. Just call me the monkey. 
As a side note, do you actually believe that this sort of ridiculous parsing of the phrase actually enhances your case?
As to your (ridiculous) question and parsing, the blockade and interdiction obviously came about as part of the process of Putin’s ‘offer’, since it’s unilateral adoption and 180 degree shift in policy caused the protests against your buddy, which caused your buddy, totally against his will and reluctantly of course, to institute ‘draconian’ measures against those evil protesters, which caused several of them to get themselves killed and lead, eventually, to your buddy, the rightful king, having to flee from the ‘thugs’ back to mother Russia…which lead to the blockade and interdiction stuff I pointed out when I didn’t parse the time line and attempt split hairs to try and shore up my beleaguered position…as you obviously feel the need to do. Or, to be fair, you are just one to split hairs and make pedantic points because, well, that’s what you do.
And so…here we go 'round the mulberry bush, the monkey chasing that damned weasel…
Accentuation of a couple of key words that are significant and critical to an original point is not parsing. What’s ridiculous is your refusal to admit you made an error in your first response because the facts clearly are that there was no physical warfare tied to Putin’s $15 billion debt. You are consistently run amok of the facts and historical record on this debate and others. There is a reason for that to keep recurring.
Good grief. Look man…seriously, you don’t seem to get this but I’ll try and tell you again (for about the millionth time now). People can scroll up. They can scroll up and freaking SEE the discussion! I know, I know…this is stunning and startling news to you and something you just never seem to be able to grasp, but it really, really is true. Really. I mean it. They can.
And if they do, they will see, for themselves, that time (and threads like this) are linear. I’m not sure how you perceive time (or threads) but to most of the sidereal universe it’s how things work. If anyone cares about another of your little pedantic antics, they can clearly see my post number 3150(!!) is what you were responding to with your parsing attempt to redefine the discussions in post 3151 (which, as I noted, comes after 3150 in our linear universe, which is apparently different than your own). See, the post you were responding to was this:
[QUOTE=XT]
And he backed it up with not only economic warfare but the physical kind too. Yeah, you are right…what were they thinking to protest when Putin had made up his mind and all?
[/QUOTE]
To which YOU decided to parse it in order to put the spin YOU wanted to on it with this gem:
[QUOTE=NFBW]
What physical warfare came with the offer to absorbe $15 billion in Kiev’s debts and reduce gas rates further?
[/QUOTE]
Again, the issue here seems to be temporal…you don’t seem to see time the same way I do, and you don’t seem to understand that whole cause and effect thingy. And, because of this, there is simply a fundamental disconnect between you and I (and, I suspect most of the rest of the universe I happen to live in…and, hell, probably between me and whatever universe you inhabit).
Been following this thread for a while. Kudos for XT, Human Action, Malthus, and others for fighting the good fight.
That said, someone needs to say this: Fuck Putin. Fuck him right in his ferret-like Frank-Burns beady-eyed face. Hey Vlad - why don’t you try and get your country into the Top 100 Life Expectancy from Birth nations before you start taking on more work? Superpower, my ass - first nine years of your Presidency, Russia’s population shrank. Nobody buys anything you export that isn’t a weapon, raw material, or computer virus. Your leadership of your country is bad and you should feel bad.
Its not clear that they will choose war. They may be choosing to set up their own government and army. The central government will be choosing war if they desire to stop them. Thus far XT is ok with that. But we don’t know if the interim government has firm enough control of its military to launch a war on the separatist regions.
Again…people can scroll up. Thus far, XT hasn’t said anything LIKE he’s ok with war, either a general war or any other kind. All I’ve actually said is that the Ukraine would be justified in using FORCE to bring IT’S (fucking) provinces back into the fold. That’s far from saying I’m ok with war.
You, however, as has been noted several times, DO seem to have some sort of fetish about slaughtering civilians and general war as well. Please, however, don’t attribute to others (specifically ME) your own odd thinking.
Everyone back down. All posters are on notice - apparently needed every week or so - that any form of personal attack or insult - however slight - will earn a warning from this point on.
I don’t think the interim givernment could be justified in anyway to start using military force against the people living in the breakaway regions of Eastern Ukraine. You say they would be justified to do that. I am not ok with that. Lets let the government of Ukraine know that Americans will not stand for a military assault on those people in the breakaway states. What’s wrong with that?
What if the anti-separatists that live in these regions are in the majority, and appeal to their (Ukrainian) government for help preventing their nationality from being stolen from them, for order to be restored, and elections held? Still not justified in any way?
Yugoslavia. That’s what’s wrong with that.
The Great powers, and yes that means Russia, too, should do everything possible to prevent this break-up. There is no oppression, no great civil rights abuses. We should not be cheerleading Russia’s land grab.
It’s Ukrainian sovereign territory. The people in the ‘breakaway regions of Eastern Ukraine’ can VOTE in the new elections if they want change. If they want to break away, then that’s certainly their right if they can pull it off…but it’s equally the right of the actual government of the Ukraine to prevent regions from breaking away if they so choose.
The same right that allowed the US to prevent the Southern States from breaking away from the union during the Civil War.
Do you feel better now? Have you noticed how far from the front pages the Ukraine crisis (Putin devouring Europe) has slipped since the fire in Odessa? America’s right cannot figure out how to politically harm Hillary over dead bodies in Ukraine so they are firing up the Benghazi branding irons in desperation and as a last resort.
Even MSNBC has lost interest in what that evil Putin is up to.
How about the eastern regions of Ukraine do what the Kurds did in Iraq in the mid-nineties and set up their own government and military and the rest of Ukraine tend to their new EU partners and straighten themselves out and nobody shoots or burns anybody to death for awhile?
[QUOTE=NotfooledbyW]
How about the eastern regions of Ukraine do what the Kurds did in Iraq in the mid-nineties and set up their own government and military and the rest of Ukraine tend to their new EU partners and straighten themselves out and nobody shoots or burns anybody to death for awhile?
[/QUOTE]
You do realize that the Kurds fought (and lost) a bloody civil war first, right? And that the fighting continued on again and off again, even with the US no fly zone? Oh, and speaking of that…presumably in your fantasy here, it would be Russia providing the no-fly-zone, right? :dubious:
As has been pointed out to you up thread, your fantasy analogy here doesn’t really fit very well, but you are no doubt going to continue to push it every chance you get.
That is a pretty big what if. In my view things would not have come this far if such anti separation were indeed a majority view. I’m watching what transpires with ‘New Russia’ and if they can assemble a government and army that is functional and if Kiev doesn’t start shooting at them as they attempt to do it.