Just wait for the referendum . . .
Ah yes. “Referendum” under Russian occupation. I am sure the result will be very valid.
Nothing more substantial than a few “iReporters” on CNN? And how do you know those voices do not speak for a minority of “Ukraine’s ethinic [sic] Russian minorities,” as opposed to a majority?
Oh, and the idea that the massive mobs in Crimea, Kharkiv etc. aren’t part of a “genuine groundswell,” and are somehow even “faked,” is an extraordinary claim. Are you claiming those mobs are… What? CGI trickery? Paid actors? Undercover agents? Or what, exactly - if not exactly what every news report out there claims they are, namely genuinely pissed off, fanatically pro-Russian ethnic Russians?
He’s probably making the simplistic assumption that since ~60% of the population is “ethnic Russian” (whatever that even means) that 60% want to be part of Russia. Could be true, but no reason to assert that it is.
That assumption is more stupid than simplistic. Lots of “ethnic Russians” (yes, whatever that even means) are smart enough not to want to be part of Russia. And I am talking even about the ones living in Russia
About 20% of Russians are thinking about leaving the country and trying their luck abroad, according to various Russian polling agencies, from the independent Levada Center to the Kremlin-friendly VTsIOM. Among 18- to 35-year-olds, close to 40% of respondents say they’d like to leave.
And a referendum under the control of the thugs and fascists now in control in Kiev would be much fairer, right?
That was never implied, mate
… which is more than you have produced, I note.
And how do you know they don’t?
… with genuinely, spontaniously-generated giant Russian flags, and genuinely, spontaniously generated posters of Putin?
Just like the mysterious masked men in military garb in Crimea lacking military insignia were “not Russian soldiers” - for a couple of days?
No doubt there is genuine support for a Russian invasion, but one would have to be remarkably gullible to believe that Putin is not doing everything he can to encourage it - including, allegedly, importing protestors.
This is hardly remarkable, as he’s been bussing in ‘demonstrators’ to pro-invasion rallies in Russia. Never mind claiming that hundreds of thousands of refugees are fleeing Ukraine!
Again with the fascist talk.
Kursk. Beluga missile. Even when Russia is certain enough to attempt a spectacular show with its new weapons, they seem to have a distressingly high chance of catastrophic failiure.
As you can see I have been in agreement with you on this:
Originally Posted by RedFury (Post 17157967) I understand that, Alessan – I simply disagree with the “simplicity” of doing so. It’d be a HUGE conflict with no guarantees whatsoever of it not turning into a third WW. I don’t think Putin (and Russia) is someone you trifle with. <“Cite”
I wonder why you think that Kerry and the Obama Administration have been ‘inept’ on handling anything ever since Putin moved some troops into Crimea and sent some off the bases and have taken effective control of that area ‘until’ as Putin explained it to Obama,:
"…there are real threats to the life and health of Russian citizens and compatriots on Ukrainian territory. Vladimir Putin stressed that if violence spread further in the eastern regions of Ukraine and in Crimea, Russia reserves the right to protect its interests and those of Russian speakers living there <“Cite”
ttp://www.theguardian.com/world/201…s-live-updates
(((Obama is in a news conference right now… and it sound as if we will see the direction the West plans to take through setting up UN Monitors. ))))
But UN Montitors may never be necessary if what follows turns out to be true:
I’m watching a Russian video of TV News yesterday 10:33 PM March 3 Moscow Time. . : Apparently according to Russian TV News… The **Autonomous Republic of Crimea **has already been formed. They are claiming to have an army of six thousand troops and control of 20 rocket launcher complexes and 30 rocket systems C300 and the Air Force Fighter Air Base of Ukraine is fully re-assigned which included 49 planes total 45 MIGS and 800 Service members. .
There is a border between Ukraine and The ARofC that is being ‘formed’ and patrolled by the Self Defense Groups of the ARofC and Special Forces translated into “Golden Eagles”… ???
Referendum is scheduled for March 30 on Future of ARofC if Pro-Referendum Passes.
All is calm in the ARofC… Concerts on the streets in celebration.
By May The ARC will be welcoming Russian Tourists. … War is not a worry… there at all…
Independence is already being celebrated. A new government and security force has already being created. It sounds as if viewers in Russia are being told on TV that Crimea is no longer part of Ukraine… and therefore, which could mean that Russian troops are not on Ukrainian territory and several Cities are pledging to side with this new state.
Just speculating on this part because the TV News is saying nothing about Russian Troops being in Crimea outside of bases. . Its as if all the troops there are somehow part of this new government.
Will watch where this goes.
Oh, so allegedly there might be a referendum on independence. But as of today, Crimea is still part of Ukraine; so why are there Russian soldiers there, and would Ukraine not be justified in using force to make them leave?
Sure, but they aren’t going to. Of course, the people in Crimea are justified in not recognizing the new Ukranian government as well. What’s your point?
See my post 397 for translation:
http://www.vesti.ru/only_video.html?vid=581880
Six of Ten in Crimea are ethnic Russian. It has been illegal to talk of separation in Crimea until the Government in Kiev fell.
There may be a vote on March 30 on splitting off from Ukraine.
For the right wing slant on what is going on see:
WORLD VIEW: RUSSIA DECLARES THE AUTONOMOUS REPUBLIC OF CRIMEA
Let’s watch shall we:
Crimea’s the sovereign territory of Ukraine; NotfooledbyW’s ramblings about referenda are irrelevant. Russia is committing multiple acts of war, for which they should rightfully be condemned and punished.
While it is interesting that many Crimeans are ethnically Russian, it’s an irrelevance in terms of this issue. If some of them want to be Russian that’s just too damned bad; they can move towards constitutional change and peaceful secession if they want to, as in fact many places have, successfully and unsuccessfuly, in the past. I don’t see how Crimeans are justified in refusing the legiitmate govermnet’s soverignty, but maybe there is some justification there. However, that’s not relevant; what is relevant is they certainly have no legal right to be independent of Ukraine. Crimea belongs to Ukraine, even if some of its citizens don’t like who’s running the government, and the rest of the world should support Ukraine in unifying itself.
Russia physically interfering with the process is nothing more than military aggression and imperialism.
That’s not what you said. You said six of ten want to be part of Russia. Do you have a cite for that or did you just make it up?
Oh and I don’t need translations. I speak Russian.
Exactly. I don’t think any of us has a problem with a democratic and constitutional effort by Crimea to split off from Ukraine and be either independent or part of Russia. But what is happening now is not the way to do it. This is blatant military aggression on Russia’s part.
Why bother to wait? Why doesn’t Obama just declare a “red line”, threaten to shoot some missiles, and Putin will fall into line like you think he did in Syria. Right?
Regards,
Shodan
Just wondering. If a Russian military officer or serviceman leaves Moscow on a plane as a Russian citizen then arrives in Crimea at an airport run by the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, which grants that soldier citizenship of the new republic is that soldier an invader or defending citizen of the new Republic.
What if Crimean citizens have been training for this day to come in Russia? are they invaders or defenders.
It’s a hypothetical question to see what the legal impacts of such a ruse would do to the dynamics of this entire crisis.
More cities in Crimea are putting up the Russian Flag as we speak … Danesk Karlov Odessa ‘Free Press’ in Russia is Reporting