What??!!
How on earth are you getting that from that footage.
These men carry a large Ukranian flag and march towards the guards, singing the Ukranian anthem. The guards fire warning shots at the marchers that demand access to their base and you see all this as a show of solidarity!???
I do not see the details you mentioned in the linked article.
Guardian headline:
right, by over throwing the democratically elected government.
Watch the video that accompanies the article.
Ah. Had to switch from Chrome to see the video. :-\
The voiceover saud near the beginning they were marching because they wanted their jobs back (having been thrown out the base).
I guess they’re basically on the same side and just want their jobs back.
Have you honestly been following the events in Ukraine prior to the coup? Sure doesn’t seem like it.
Ukraine: One ‘Regime Change’ Too Many? – written by Ray McGovern, former CIA operative.
Salient paragraphs:
Now, try putting 2 + 2 together and see what you get.
Watched it. Does not appear very confrontational. The two groups appear neutral at best. One appears under orders to keep base secure, the other wants to return to their stations/base. Warning shots seem like an over-reaction. Would have been interesting to see how it was settled. <shrug>
[QUOTE=RedFury]
Now, try putting 2 + 2 together and see what you get.
[/QUOTE]
That it equals ‘your cite did not demonstrate what you were asserting, and that when called on it you pulled this cite out of your ass to try and prop up the claim’. Or, 4 in other words…while you are claiming it equals A.
Honestly? No. I wasn’t following events in the Ukraine prior to the coup except peripherally. Sorry, the Ukraine was simply not on my personal radar until just before the coup and afterwards. Be that as it may, you have still failed to really demonstrate that the US was behind the coup, even remotely or tangentially. I know YOU think you have…the same as 9/11 Truthers are convinced that they have presented all of the evidence needed to prove their claims…but so far you haven’t come close to proving anything, and certainly the post I was responding too didn’t.
But, you answered the question…you seriously do think that the cite you gave shows something.
To anyone but the most closed-minded it does. It really does.
This is all standard form, the US has done this so many times in the past five decades, it’s a smooth, vastly experienced operation.
And as I mentioned in a previous post, check the work done by Pierre Omidyar with USAID on this - again, standard form. You won’t find any ref to it in your mainstream corp/caplitalist media, for pretty obv. reasons.
Flawless probably isn’t the right word, but when the insignia-less troops were occupying Crimea, the airport I think, someone asked one of the soldiers why he had an accent from inside Russia and the guy said something like “I spend a few months there and picked it up.” Sounds lame. I could spend a few months in the southern US but I wouldn’t come back with a southern accent.
The notion that events in Ukraine were dictated by Washington is silly, to anyone who knows the situation there. Washington was (and is) reacting to events there.
Sure, they were happy to see and support (mostly to date with lip service) a popular movement that preferred the EU over Russia, but they did not create it, and even if they wanted to, they could not prevent it.
Note that the same is not true of current Russian actions. This is not a symmetrical situation, with US interence countered by Russian interference. This is a situation of a popular movement, one that the West broadly supports (with good reason!), countered by Russian interference.
The notion that impeaching the duly elected president is somehow “anti-democratic” is another absurdity. An election does not give a leader carte blanche to rob his country blind and murder people who disapprove. Democracy isn’t simply a sort of religious ritual that confers a seamless mantle of legitimacy. It requires things like respect for the rule of law to work. When the President starts (say) having his relations corner the market in government contracts and having opponents “disappeared”, he ought to be impeached.
The US deciding the future of Ukraine…but don’t believe your lying ears:
No, it really doesn’t, except to the already converted. I’m going to need a bit more to go by than a cite from a former CIA operative (retired 1990) cum political activist on an obviously (to me) loony lefty website that has an (again to me) obvious agenda. Perhaps this constitutes proof where you come from (I’m certain it does) but to me this is hardly cut and dried…and certainly Red’s post that I was originally responding too didn’t demonstrate squat wrt his assertion that the US was behind the coup.
As I said – and as does BrokenBriton – to anyone not playing the no-see, no-hear, no-talk, three, rah rah USA! USA!, monkeys, it’s blatanly clear.
Seriously, explain the conversation.
The US is reacting to events in the east, especially in Crimea.
It is, however, orchestrating events in Kiev, esp. in relation to the unelected ‘leadership’ that overthrew the democractic government.
Oh yeah? Well fuck Russia.
There. Now I’m controlling events in Ukraine!
Where woud that come from, except another Edward Snowden five years, ten years down the line. You have to read the runes better, not wait for proclamational headlines in the NewYork Times.
So, that would be a ‘no’ then. You have nothing and neither does Red. And all this talk of me being a monkey chanting rah! rah! USA! USA! is pretty fucking ironic, considering what you guys are trying to do and to pass off as proof of the assertion that the US is behind the coup. When come back bring…fucking something.
It just isn’t going to be laid out for you on the nightly news. If you can get that far, it’s a start.
Maybe even ask yourself wtf John Kerry is doing in Kiev supporting the protestors who overthrew the democractically elected government, and now led by Yatsenyuk - the man Nuland cited as her ideal choice a month ago.
And Kerry is claiming these nationalists are all about ‘freedom’. It doesn’t even make common sense.