I found this one – who actually got it – quite a bit more ironic taking into account what’s happened since: The Nobel Peace Prize 2009
Then again, have it your way…want fries w/that?
Hopefully that became what many in the US like to call “a teachable moment”.
George W Bush was also nominated in 2009, which also shows that anyone can be nominated.
Not sure what has “happened since” that you’re referring to - the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have been or are being wound down, the US’s involvement in the Libyan conflict (the foreign involvement in which was led by the UK and France) was minimal, and he backed off his foolishly-made threat to Syria. Mostly his bloodthirstiness seems to be limited to drone strikes, which on the US President scale of warmongering is surprisingly mild.
One of the first things the Ukrainian Parliament did after toppling Yanukovitch was to abolish the 2012 law that protected the rights of minority language groups.
These guys are ultra-nationalists and they’re not big on minority rights. It’s small wonder that most Russian-speakers in the Crimea are nervous and looking to Russia to protect them.
Putin has told you. He’s not claiming he’s entitled. He says he is able and obligated to protect Russian speaking Ukrainians who asked for his help because of the mess in Kiev.
Because of his lease agreement Putin is ‘entitled’ to send or amass up to 25,000 Russian troops into Crimea to protect assets and personnel. They certainly cannot go takeover Ukrainian bases. But in stretching legal restraints Putin appears to have justified in his mind that taking over Ukraine military assets on the Crimean Peninsula is the only way to protect Russisn lives and property that are entitled to be there.
Any significant involvement of Fascists in the interim government is a threat to stability in the region.
Not saying any of that is right in pure legal terms, but Putin has the moral advantage over the foes in the west.
If a referendum for Crimean independence passes Putin wins and controls negotiations having to had fire a couple of shots into the air.
And very important is that Putin has not shown actions leading to regime change in Kiev. That is critical because his foes and enemies and critics live in nations that support an invasion, a full scale guns and bombs blazing ground and air assault across soveregn borders to effect regime change and brutal / killing and maiming tens of thousands of lives and destroying millions worth of property all against zero threat to anything by the deposed regime,
That clear atrocity in world history by the US and UK does not justify subsequent international lawbreaking but it fits rightly into a moral evaluation of what is happening now. And jeeeeezuz h keeeerist how does Putin’s no-regime-change - no one killed - nothing bombed or blown up - beefed up presence in Crimea compare to the first full week of the US invasion of Iraq?
When all perspective is considered this current violation of territorial borders is Jay walking comoared to First Degree Murder when our side did the border crossing violation.
Good call – kind of when wearing a seat-belt saves a life or not wearing one causes a death.
Fuck me! I agree with you. :eek:
It was part of a push to get rid of Yanukovitch-inspired legislation, it had nothing to do with ‘protecting the rights of minority language groups’ (what it did, was allow any city with minority-speakers over 10% of the population to declare that language an “official language” - just how common is such legislation in other countries?) and the repeal was in any case vetoed , so the law remains in force.
Not seeing this as evidence that “these guys are ultra-nationalists and they’re not big on minority rights”.
I note that Russia, Hungary and Romania were protesting. What are their minority-language laws I wonder? Is Ukrainian an “official language” in Russia? Why, no.
What about Hungary? Apparently, only Hungarian has official status there.
And Romania?
I am not saying that these countries ought to have a law similar to the Ukrainan law - I’m simply pointing out it is very odd, to say the least, to view the Ukrainian legislature’s (failed) attempt to have a legal situation similar to that of these countries is not evidence of evil nationalism.
The bolded part – hardly fitting for a Nobel Peace Prize winner.
That’s what I meant when I wrote “what’s happened since.” By American standards – questionable by most of the world – it may be “minor” but killing hundreds of innocents and calling it “collateral damage” certainly doesn’t honor the award.
According to twitter, the UN envoy to Crimea is being chased out of the place by armed thugs.
Oh, so he’s not entitled to do it. Well, okay.
While you’re trying desperately to weasel-word Russia’s justification here, even you can’t help but admitting the truth; they’ve invaded Ukraine in order to get their way with regards to an economic treaty.
If you’re propositioning NFBW, I suggest you do that in PMs.
As for the argument of “the only way to protect Russian lives and property” - can someone cite some evidence of a threat to Russian lives and property in Crimea prior to Russian invasion? Some hate crimes perpetrated on the Russian majority there maybe? Something? Anything?
You might want to qualify this request to a non-Russian source. I’ve seen plenty of Russian (or pro-Russian) sources to back this claim up. the article Malthus (and later I) linked too briefly touches on the fact that Russia has been priming the pump on this for quite a long time now.
Invasion has such a negative ring to it. Couldn’t they be dynamically moving military forces (with shifted zones of what constitutes their ‘bases’…I’m thinking 1000 km diameter zones would be best, for movement purposes…and really, limiting numbers are so, well, limiting) into non-Russian territory with the express aim at quelling the imminent ethnic threat to the large Russia speaking minority…a threat they have seemingly been touting for years now, and while it hasn’t materialized yet, it could…any day now…? That sounds so much better, and really that means it’s not really an invasion…right?
I am impressed - and pleased - by the fact that the actual population of Ukraine appears to be utterly failing to live down to the ‘bunch of racists, fascists and thugs’ stereotype that pro-Russian propaganda has attempted to foist on them as their excuse for pre-emptive thuggery.
This, despite the fact that Ukraine (like many other European countries, including most notably Russia) does in fact have some unpleasant ultra-right-wing types.
Oh it definitely does. And as bad as “Svoboda” is, the anti-Semitism I have seen coming from pro-Yanukovich and “Berkut” sources is way more disgusting. See this for example:
http://evreiskiy.kiev.ua/ukrainskijj-berkut-nashel-krajjnikh-12687.html
The page is in Russian, but click on the screenshots. Those are of the “Berkut” Facebook page.
The same way Neville Chamberlain did.
http://youtu.be/FO725Hbzfls
Followed a year later by this:
There is fascist thuggery going on alright.
Here’s a video of Maidan people attending a regional political session:
My understanding is that things like this is going on in many places in Ukraine. I think duress is the word best describing the situation.
Was ‘massacre’ which started Ukraine revolution ordered by the new leaders? – Leaked tape says Maidan snipers were NOT under control of ousted president but opposition which drove him from power
Leaked conversation here: Leaked: Kiev snipers hired by Maidan leaders
“There’s no worse blindmen than those who refuse to see” – or hear, whichever the case may be.
*Gosh’?! Fucking “gosh”! Well jeez, sounds like she was really taken aback. Not.
So…a supposed leaked call between EU’s foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton and Estonia’s foreign affairs minister Urmas Paet which ‘apparently claims a doctor told him both protesters and police were shot by the same snipers during clashes between the two groups that escalated violently on February 20’. I mean, that’s pretty solid for you Red…there might actually be something to this. If you can’t trust an unnamed ‘doctor’ who told someone this in a supposed intercepted phone call, who can you trust? Man, I wonder what Fox News has to say about this…
At the time of the shootings, police officers had reported taking fire from unknown snipers, so it’s not impossible that there has been a third party at work. However, I the phone call is not proof of this.
I think the phone call is genuine, but the information regarding the sniping is hearsay. A forensic investigation would have been useful, but it was a higher priority for the new regime to impose Russian language restrictions, it seems.