Yes it fucking is, since even if that’s what he’s doing, he’s doing it at the point of a gun. If a majority of people in those regions want to be Russians, let them have a referendum. Let Putin lobby for a referendum. Let the people dispose of themselves, as is their right. The USSR was dissolved 30 years ago, the “expats” didn’t have enough time to move back to what they think is home ?
But of course, that’s not what’s happening. The Ukrainian military doesn’t want to work for non-fascist, non-dictators. And Putin wants Kiev, which is a) the only part of the Ukrain that’s generating cash and b) emphatically doesn’t want to be part of Russia - they’ve been asked.
It’s a hard-right coup. You can’t couch that in “not unreasonable” terms.
This seems to happen frequently around the world these days. I don’t wish to sound cavalier about it, but it does not immediately mean it’s a “threat to world peace”. Most conflicts remain regional conflicts. I don’t believe this one to be any different.
And the Soviet Empire is being rebuilt without even the slightest opposition from the West. It’s literally like we’ve got end-term FDR in office who is blind to what is happening and letting it all happen again (except the massive WW2 Red Army isn’t here, all it would take is some political agreements and minor troop deployments and Putin would be hemmed in lest he risk outright attack against NATO.) We have an insanely weak, pathetic President. He has destroyed our reputation by drawing lines in the sand that he just laughs about when they’re crossed.
Obama’s actually done a lot of stuff that he deserves credit for, but he completely misunderstand our relationship with Russia and how foreign policy works. He thinks it’s like trying to run a community center, and it isn’t. Foreign relations is full contact football where actual actions matter more than anything else, not domestic politics where you can use pretty speech writing to win the day or utilize attack ads as your serious body blows.
Not all Ukrainian nationalists are fascists. Some are, to be sure. And sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference. Which only helps Putin make his case.
I doubt Putin has any illusions about annexing Kiev. Did he ever express that desire? What he wants, and will get, is Crimea (or key parts thereof).
Yeah because obviously we live in a world where only the President knows anything and us citizens are too stupid to have any knowledge of foreign policy. I guess I was in a fugue state when I thought for most of my adult life we basically spent most of our foreign policy efforts on checking Russian aggression across dozens of satellite countries spread around the world. I guess that didn’t happen and all the Presidents of the Cold War and all the dumb people like every major foreign policy adviser from the Truman to H.W. Bush Administrations were actually mistaken that we need to check Russian aggression/expansionism and instead the Iron Curtain was a great thing as was the Soviet Empire and we should do nothing to prevent a repeat of that.
But thanks for setting me straight on how we’re all too stupid and Obama knows best.
Hell, Putin is just protecting ethnic Russians in Crimea anyway. I’ve never heard of a country saying something like that for crass expansionist reasons or anything so not sure why anyone is even upset. And Crimea is certainly going to have a really open and fair election voting for independence and union with Russia with Russian soldiers controlling all their government buildings, broadcasting facilities, airports etc.
Actually ML, nevadaexile is correct specifically in what I understand to be true that the ‘attack’ was really a case of un-badged uniformed armed men walking up and beginning to patrol the roads leading into or parts of the airport facility. No shots were fired… they were welcomed in by some sort of civilian militia.
I cannot agree that the al Qaeda airline hijackers were welcomed into the WTC, the Pentagon, and the ground near Somerset Pa or the cockpits of any of those airlines.
Also the attack on 09/11/01 was not an invasion in the general sense that term is understood.
That is because it was a suicide attack by terrorists. It was an invasion of a sovereign nation that led the US invasion into Afghanistan to prevent the Taliban government from granting safe harbor to the masterminds of the terrorists that directed the attack on a sovereign US Soil.
Not true On Syria. Have you forgotten. Obama ‘wanted’ to bomb Syria for crossing the red line of using CW on civilians.
Obama has not drawn a red line .on Ukraine… Marmot Lover and others are calling it that, But Obama has not drawn a red line… or a pink line…
And Putin met Obama’s request for over a year to pressure Assad to give up his CW arsenal and he is. Obama didn’t laugh after Assad gassed women and children. The Isolationist right and anti-war for anything left rose against Obama and he has never backed down on Syria. Had Putin not caved and pressured Assad to give up the CW Obama was ready to bomb with or without Congress.
I actually think Ukraine probably was untenable with its current borders, the same way Czechoslovakia didn’t really need to be one country but Ukraine obviously was heading for a more troubling divorce. Crimea is very heavily Russian, and really only became part of Ukraine due to internal border redrawings in the 1950s within the Soviet Empire. It’s historically part of Russia and is a genuine Russian area similar to Kaliningrad.
So I don’t have a problem with Crimea going to Russia. What I have a problem with is Crimea going to Russia after Putin just decides to send thousands of troops into the province, occupies all the government buildings, then declares plans for a hasty end of March election at gunpoint.
I fear that sometimes we’re so scared of Godwin rules that we take it to the point of being unwilling to learn from history. There are clear lessons to learn from letting bully leaders annex land under preposterous justifications and clear lessons to learn from letting same build out a network of client/satellite states and I’m not seeing where any of our leadership is understanding those lessons in regard to Russia.
Yes @Notfooled, Obama did good on the chemical weapons angle but if you’ve followed the situation on the ground Russia now more heavily than ever is involved in Syria and making it essentially another Russian client state. There’s bigger geopolitical things going on than just CW in Syria.
