Ukraine has two revognized Presidents. One properly elected and never properly impeached recognized by Crimea. The other was appointed by militant
Take-over and recognized by Eastern Ukraine.
So do you support permitting the anti-EU Side setting up camp in Kiev to try to bring down the appointed President by protest and perhaps throwing Molotov cocktails at police in order to have their way?
Why don’t you understand that everone that cast a ballot voted in favor of becoming a part of a Russia again? The number that matters is what number of ballots were cast. No one was forced to cast a vote by the barrel of a gun. Voting was a celebrated event. Like out 4Th of July.
Why don’t you understand why a 95% result for anything in any election is highly suspect?
“Suddenly”? Nothing new about it.
Us swarthy types over here in Europe have been stabbed, kicked, shot, beaten up, had our shops and houses and property burned down or vandalized and told to G.T.F.O. for decades already.
We’ve had wave after wave after wave of skinheads, boneheads, “Rock Against Communism”-types, Holocaust deniers, fascists, neo-Nazis, nativists, “identitarians,” “racial realists,” “counter-jihadists,” etc., etc. ad nauseam, from Greece to Norway to Austria and Spain.
But hey, I’m sure they’re all teddy bears at heart, because fuck Putin amirite.
Obviously 95% does not favour the proposition. There’s an incredible amount of disillusion and apathy towards established political process in Ukraine. My guess is that those that were against just didn’t bother cast their vote thinking it was a done deal. But not that there necessarily have been a lot of election fraud. 95% means nothing without voter turnout.
No it’s that if you’re a fascist, you’re a fascist, even if your country is being bullied by Russia.
But thanks for playing.
No, they’re a different problem.
To quote Aji de Gallina, someone with whom I rarely agree on politics:
And this is the fundmental problem. Svoboda may well be a quasi-fascist party but they are not the entirety of the new government and even if they were, that in itself would not be an excuse for the invasion/occupation nor an excuse for this sham of a referendum.
So yes, fuck Putin. Fuck Svoboda too, if you like.
What really surprises me is that someone like RedFury is supporting Crimea’s ‘Franco-style’ referendum. Yesterday’s vote, in both form and victory margin, are a lot like Spain’s referenda in 1947 and 1966
The news reports I’ve seen place the turnout at around 80%.
The assertion that the Ukrainians in Kiev are Fascists goes way too far and I think is probably right out of the Russian disinformation machine.
Some Ukrainians in Kiev may be neo-Fascists. The new government in Kiev is not a fascist government (or at least not yet).
Some people everywhere are neo-Fascists.
And that’s why we should invade everywhere.
Odd that the West should voice their concern about the unconstitutionality of the Crimean referendum. I don’t recall Western leaders wringing their hands when Kosovo held a referendum to detach itself from Serbia. I supported the Kosovans then, I support the Crimeans now. Is anybody on this board seriously arguing that the great majority of Crimeans do not wish to reunite with their motherland?
As to Putin’s further goals I suspect that he does have ambitions to expand into territory once part of the Soviet Union. I would not support such goals but with the weakest American President in a long time in the White House I don’t see much to restrain him.
This and the Kosovo referendum are very different animals, and comparing them obscures more than it reveals. They have very, very little in common.
a) What makes you think Putin’s actions have anything to do with the US?
b) What do you think the US (and this president) should be doing about this?
Interesting - apparently there are fascists in Ukraine. Some held a good old-fashioned book-burning, deliberately targeting books on language and history of the despised ‘other’. That’s a very clear fascist-style tactic.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/16/us-ukraine-east-idUSBREA2F0P220140316
Oh wait - those were the pro-Russian fascists.
Ironically, I was watching a show on CNN this weekend where they were talking to some of the folks in the Crimea. One guy, (a Muslim(??) who was opposed to the vote) had much the same experience you are mentioning here. I guess the government (fun loving guys no doubt) posted pictures of him on the walls of his building saying he was a dissident, and I guess the playful people in his building took turns teaching him the error of his ways. The voting place near his building also had pictures of this guy (and many others)…I guess to ensure they got a good booth during the historic vote, right?
No, youarerong. It’s more: Putin is right because… Nationalists! And Russians are such cute and cuddly creatures. Not a “nationalist” among them!!
I have to say, though - the Russians sure did organize this whole thing really fast, didn’t they? I mean, conquering a country isn’t something you throw together over a weekend. I didn’t know they had it in them.