Russia has invaded Ukraine. How will the West respond?

You should try to follow the discussion between nevadaexile and myself and in that context before wasting our time with your unwitty sarcasm. I am not silent about Russian nationalism. Who are you talking about?
Russian nationalism right now is about agreement to take Crimea back into the Russian Federation. Its not about blowing up gas pipelines.

On 03-03-2014 at 04:48 PM you wrote in response to RickJay:

Its nice you don’t have a ‘problem’ with it but you fail to comprehend that there was NO democratic and constitutional way for Crimea to separate from Ukraine. So when Ukraine’s constitution fell under the stress of violence under the joint leadership of that Russian hating Yarosh fellow, the Crimeans took the steps they needed to declare independence from Ukraine and they got it done.

When Russia was invaded, “Russian nationalism” was all about blowing up dambs, bridges and train tracks (and later in the process, carpet-bombing the enemy’s cities). So why are you surprised that “Ukrainian nationalism” is contemplating the same measures in the same circumstances? War is war.

You keep saying this and yet you have never shown it to be true or even explained why it would be true. What was preventing Ukraine from conducting negotiations with the government of Kiev to arrange for a referendum and subsequent negotiations for independence?

This is like responding that the Korean Central News Agency is a good source for information, because Kim Jong Un was, in fact, honored by gifts presented from the Los Angeles Branch of the Juche Movement. If Kim did indeed receive such a gift, then it must not be propaganda!

So the Forbes confirmation doesn’t suit you and you have no rebuttal that that this Yarosh extremist that we are backing said no such thing. Of course you must attack the source when you cannot attack the argument.
Things can be true even if Western major news media does not cover it.

Forbes in a little read business report mentions the Ukraine news agency reported this. I can accept that. And you cannot demonstrate that it is like that the RT is lying. If it were untrue and Russian propaganda I’m sure this Yarosh asswipe would be complaining about it.

Can you explain, first, what your problem is with “this Yarosh extremist’s” statement? Do you think that in case Russia invades Ukraine, sabotaging the pipelines that deliver Russian natural gas to Europe is an irrational, or “extreme” reaction?

Here you go:

And this on making amendments to the Constitution.

No Amendnemnts if they are aimed at violation of the territorial integrity of Ukraine

More from that link:

Are you saying Russia did not ‘invade’ Ukraine?
And if Russia in fact did launch a full scale invasion of all of Ukraine beyond Crimea… I’m sure they’d have shut the gas off by that level of hostilities. Don’t you thinks.

Yes, it did. How did you get the idea that I said it didn’t?

Only “full scale invasion”? If it is a “partial” invasion, do you think it would be an irrational reaction by Ukrainians to sabotage the pipelines that carry Russian natural gas to Europe?

Again, do explain, what is your problem with Yarosh’s “extremist” statement?

Why did you ask me *‘in case Russia invades Ukraine’ *at 11:34 PM?

You didn’t ask if Russia invades Ukraine any further than Crimea. Just wanted to verify what you are saying. Is that what you are saying?

And it is absolutely irrational to blow up even small sections of the pipelines if the Russian Tanks and Air Force were on the move in any kind of invasion. It is more irrational if it were a ‘partial’ invasion. It would accomplish nothing because Russia would or could shut off the gas anyway.

As a “what if” question. Whether it happened already or didn’t is irrelevant to the question.

No, that is not what I am saying. I think Ukrainians are quite justified to sabotage the pipelines already, since the invasion already happened.

It would shut off gas during the invasion, sure. But blowing up the pipelines would ensure Russia would not be able to turn it back on, and would not be getting paid for its natural gas for quite a while after, if ever. So - how would that be irrational?

And, for the third time, you still didn’t explain - what is your problem with Yarosh’s “extremist” statement?

Its irrational and stupid to blow up the pipelines and specifically if the objective is to make sure that Russia does not get paid for the gas it is supplying. If EU countries including Ukraine think it would be effective to cease buying gas from Russia they can refuse to take any more deliveries. This nutjob Yaresh is trying to make the decision for the rest of Europe.

Huh? Ukraine does not control EU and what it does. Ukraine does, though, aspire to control its own territory. If invaded, it would be stupid and irrational of Ukraine to expect EU to support it to the point of not buying natural gas from Russia - especially after the joke of “sanctions” that EU and US have put in place right now. So it would be supremely rational to blow up and sabotage as much of those pipelines as they can.

Yarosh’s threat is rational and logical (and, I can only hope, not a bluff). Your sycophantic support of Russian fascism blinds you to that. And that’s a generous assessment.

No one is forcing you to read my posts. Don’t like them, don’t read them.

Why would you think I was talking about you? Did I call you out by name? Is it your contention that no one in this thread has criticized Ukrainian nationalism? Perhaps it is you who should follow what is going on this thread and stop thinking that everything is about you.

Obama to Putin: Do as I Say Not as I Do

much more at source. Delicious.

Funny & factual read:

Taking on Putin: The Gessen Plan

US, take your ball and go home.

Two posts before that:

So if the people of Ukraine thought Yanukovich was selling out their country, it doesn’t matter because anybody who does is wrong because NotfooledbyW thinks he wasn’t?

Nice double standard, there.

Red: I know you like it that Putin is sticking it to the US (as well as all of Western Europe), and I’m OK with that. But seriously, dude, we are looking at another potential Yugoslavia (only bigger) and Putin is not helping-- he’s hurting. This is much bigger than a tiff between Putin and Obama, and not a laughing matter. Do you really want another war in Europe?

As long as it makes the US look bad, obviously.

And Ralph Nader? The man who brought us Dubya? Really?

I thought I’d post this (opinion) piece from CNN:

I post this because there are certain posters in this thread who have attempted to spin this entire sorry event from a Russian perspective. This gives a different view of some of those key discussion points. Note that this IS an opinion piece…note because some of the, er, highly conjectural things posted previously in this thread are presented nearly as fact, and I’m making no such claims. I’m sure some will be in quickly to dismiss this for it’s hyperbolic language while giving a pass to the other sides hyperbole, but I just wanted to give a different, non-Pro-Russian (rah rah!) view point. While I don’t see this sort of thing as a flag waving/wrapping pro-America (rah rah!) viewpoint, I’m sure I’ll get more of that as well.