Shovels as weapons also surely require the combatants to have the stomach to look their foe in the eye and commit a personal act of savagery. How many Russian conscripts are going to be enthusiastic to do that for a war of conquest?
Yeah, it takes time to train up crews for tanks (both the guys inside the vehicle, and the maintenance teams). But that’s why we should have already been doing that.
The best time to plant a tree is fifty years ago. The second-best time to plant a tree is now.
The best time to start shipping tanks to an ally is a year ago. The second-best time is now.
We already have modern tanks in Europe, just in case we ever need them to stop a Russian advance. Well, we need them right now to stop a Russian advance. Let’s drive them all to the Poland/Ukraine border, with trainers, and let Ukraine decide when they’ve had enough training to bring them to the front lines. We don’t even need to put them on ships.
From the link:
One of the reservists described being “neither physically nor psychologically” prepared for the action, the update added.
very worthwhile read, indeed …
fairly well researched and argued.
The headline is misleading. These troops are being sent in with “only firearms and shovels”.
Perhaps some people need to look up the the definition of melee. Not going to do your homework for you. It’s not a good idea to use bullets when combatants are intermingled. Don’t want to accidentally shoot your comrades.
With bullets, it’s harder for the enemy to get close enough to intermingle.
I doubt that shovels are the only thing they are armed with. You seem to have fallen for slanted propaganda- stories written to imply that shovels are the only weapon given out.
There’s a time and a place for everything, even savage hand to hand fighting.
You seem to assume that I missed the part in the article that said they were being armed with firearms and shovels.
Too late to edit.
I do not wish to get into an argument, nor continue a hijack.
Scenes of destruction:
It depends on the situation. As mentioned, shovels were used a lot in WWI during trench raids. In close quarters like that, a good melee weapon can actually be better than a rifle type weapon. They can switch targets quickly, and don’t need to be reloaded.
Since we know there are trenches being used in Ukraine, I have no doubt that at least a few fights have come down to such up-close and personal violence in a trench.
That looks like pictures of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Jesus.
It also explains why Ukraine has been holding on to these places so stubbornly. If they pull out, this is just going to happen to the next city down the road.
They have to fight the Russians somewhere, so it might as well be a place that’s already trashed.
That assumes symmetrical warfare. When doughboys go Over The Top and charge on foot into an enemy trench, if any actually reach the trench, they’ll be fighting in melee range. But if, instead of charging in on foot, you’re in even a lightly-armored vehicle, then shovels will be completely irrelevant.
I don’t think that Ukraine is using over-the-top tactics. If they’re facing an enemy trench, they’ll either use modern answers, or if modern answers aren’t available, they’ll just wait in place until they are.
off-topic hidden by What Exit? Please don’t reply
Just to lighten the mood a bit, I read a WWI anecdote where some Tommies were entrenched. A battalion of French infantry arrived about 50 yards in front of them and started digging their own trench. As the afternoon wore on the trench deepened until the men were out of sight, just the shovels momentarily as they pitched the dirt up.
The Tommies began amusing themselves by taking potshots at the shovels. One Poilu got into the game, holding his shovel up a few moments then yanking it down out of sight. For a while, anyway, then it stopped. “Aww,” they thought. “Some sergeant with no sense of humor came by.”
Then the shovel was slowly raised again, with a bandage on it.
I envision cat puns. I’m leaving, I’m leaving.
On topic: Ukrainian philanthropist (and potential future presidential candidate) Serhiy Prytula announced that 101 armored personnel carriers have been purchased through a crowd-sourcing effort. They include Spartans, Samaritans, Sultans, Stormers, Shielders, Samsons, FV432s and FV434s once used by the British Army but now out of service.
Prytula said the first 24 of those vehicles have already been delivered.
What Putin can not have he will destroy.
Strange to look at that and know that all that damage was done without using waves of heavy bombers. The number of artillery shells used must have been staggering.