Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)

The crux of the dilemma is agreeing on what constitutes an existential threat to Russia. Putin may set the bar much lower than westerners might expect. Reading his mind is a scary and pointless exercise. Putin will be Putin, and we cannot change that. We must live our democratic principles and do what is right. Endless second guessing ourselves profits no one.

That’s an argument for NATO setting the bar low. I don’t like the idea that NATO is constrained by the nuclear threat from Russia. However, I’m glad that the Soviet Union was constrained by the nuclear threat from NATO last century. There’s an idea that acquiesce to a nuclear power encourages other countries to become nuclear powers. I can’t counter that argument other than to state that the US/Europe/NATO/allies need to constantly build and reinforce alliances. Unfortunately, Ukraine was never a western ally. Treating them as an ally now when there were never foreign defenders protecting them before is an escalation between the west and Russia. I want the west to support Ukraine, but I also really don’t want the west to raise that support bar where Russia perceives it crosses the threshold from Ukrainian support to active war against Russia.

I don’t think that we are treating them as allies because they are western allies. Rather I think that what we are doing is telling the rest of the world that it’s unacceptable to go invading neighbouring, and completely non-threating countries; but we’re stuck with a potential nuclear threat and a very dangerous leader that are really limiting our options.

The only reason we are bothering to help Ukraine is because we know damn well they are dying instead of us right now, and the longer they hold out the longer we postpone the Russia/NATO clash. If that wasn’t an absolute certainty we would give zero fucks about what Russia does.

The Russian invaders have made some progress to the south of Lysychansk. The fascists had been gathering reserves for an offensive to conquer the entirety of Luhansk Oblast - with Severodonetsk-Lysychansk being the last major urban area in the province under Ukrainian control - by a reported deadline of June 26 (Sunday).

Meanwhile, the Ukrainian counteroffensive in Kherson Oblast is making progress.

That Ukrainian pocket is steadily closing in. There’s not much Ukraine can do except make every foot of occupied land as costly as possible for Russia.

The artillery crews got a short break from the war. It must be tough leaving Germany and rejoining the front lines.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/howitzers-arrive-ukraine-first-pledged-weapons-package-germany-2022-06-21/

The German Panzerhaubitze 2000 looks similar to a tank. I guess the longer barrel identifies it as artillery.

I see how mobility makes it a great weapon for shoot and scoot tactics.

Site: Shoot-and-scoot - Wikipedia

How much of the Russian artillery is towed rather than self-propelled?

Seems like most of the Russian artillery is mobile.

Russia has plenty of both.

The vehicle in the centre, a 2S19 Msta, is probably the closest Russian equivalent to the Panzerhaubitze 2000.

I suspect that the more self-propelled artillery there is, the more fuel it takes to move it around. It just seems to me that a truck towing a gun can get that piece to a new location faster and with less gas than the SP variety.

Is this accurate?

From Wikipedia:

Their tracks would also give them better off-road mobility.

Yes. The main advantage of towed is cheaper - per piece, and fuel, etc.

The advantage of SPG is that it scoots to avoid counterbattery fire much better, and is usually armored, so much more survivable.

It seems like finding enough fuel is a major problem for the Russians, though. Could it be that the towed arty can redeploy for an advance more readily due to getting more performance per gallon?

Russia is the second-largest oil producer in the world. The fuel problems they were having earlier in the war were related to getting fuel to frontline units amid Ukrainian ambushes on supply convoys, as well as seasonal mud limiting off-road movement when the roads were a massive traffic jam of Russian vehicles.

German scheduled/intransit contributions:

30 Gepard armored self-propelled anti-aircraft guns, including around 6,000 rounds of anti-aircraft ammunition
IRIS-T surface-to-air missile system
Cobra artillery detection radar
80 Toyota pickup trucks
Three MARS multiple rocket launchers with ammunition
54 M113 armored personnel carriers with armament (systems from Denmark, with conversion financed by Germany)
10,000 rounds of artillery ammunition
53,000 rounds of anti-aircraft ammunition
5.8 million rounds of handgun ammunition
Seven Panzerhaubitze 2000 155mm self-propelled howitzers, including training and spare parts (joint project with the Netherlands)
5,000 combat helmets
Eight mobile ground radars and thermal imaging devices
40 reconnaissance drones
10 protected vehicles
Seven “jammers”
Eight electronic anti-drone devices
Four mobile, remote-controlled, protected demining devices
65 refrigerators for medical supplies
One vehicle decontamination point
100 auto-injectors
14 anti-drone sensors and jammers
10 anti-drone cannons
100,000 first aid kits
22 trucks

Previous contributions:
3,000 Panzerfaust 3 semi-disposable single-shot rocket cartridges plus 900 launchers
14,900 anti-tank mines
500 Stinger man-portable air-defense systems (MANPADS)
2,700 Strela surface-to-air missiles
16 million rounds of handgun ammunition
50 Bunkerfaust rockets designed for use against hardened enemy positions
100 MG3 machine guns with 500 spare barrels and bolts
100,000 hand grenades
5,300 explosive charges
100,000 meters of detonating cord and 100,000 detonators
350,000 detonators
23,000 combat helmets
15 pallets of clothing
178 motor vehicles
100 tents
12 power generators
six pallets of material for explosive ordnance disposal
125 binoculars
1,200 hospital beds
18 pallets of medical supplies, 60 surgical lights
Protective clothing, surgical masks
10,000 sleeping bags
600 pairs of shooting glasses
one radio frequency system
3,000 field telephones with 5,000 reels of field cord and carrying equipment
one field hospital (joint project with Estonia)
353 sets night vision goggles
Four electronic anti-drone devices
165 binoculars
Medical supplies
38 laser range finders
Diesel fuel and gasoline
10 tons of AdBlue diesel fuel exhaust fluid
500 wound dressings
500 food rations
2,025 pallets, or 68 truckloads, of food
MiG-29 spare parts
30 armored vehicles

So this wasn’t accurate?

“And @Bundeskanzler Sholz carries his own suitcase …
Probably there’s military aid: Two pistols, one grenade, a photo of a howitzer.”

Fortunately I’d just put my drink down. :rofl: :rofl:

Huh, apparently a russian drone bumped into the Russian refinery. :wink: :wink:

It’s my understanding that the exact opposite is true.