I’ll allow that.
While we’re here…
@AHunter3, in the “Democracy in Crisis” thread, you mention being a Green Party supporter. I’m curious, does that mean you’re for Jill Stein?
Does the fact that she’s a Russian asset bother you at all?
I was going to ask in the original thread, but I figured that sort of question is better for the pit.
Hi Babale. I am a Green Party member. A more accurate term than supporter, I think. Our party’s nominee happens to be Jill Stein. I would not designate her a “Russian asset” but her position on the Russian-Ukraine conflict does in fact bother me, and the even more anti-Ukraine position of several of my Green colleagues does even more so. Generally I tend to tie this to the over-the-top political purist positions that 3rdParty people tend to gravitate towards that I expounded on in the other thread.
Ah, so you’re like my wife’s grandparents. “I’m not a Trump supporter, but I have to vote for the Republican candidate!”
Why not? The case against her seems pretty damn strong to me.
…and the fact that so much of the party is taking such a stupid stance doesn’t give you pause?
You think they arrive at their pro Putin position out of ideological purity? What fucking ideology leads them there?
Why does your nominee only attack Biden and Kamala, never Trump? Why has she openly said that “Trump wants a repeat of 2016” and that “the difference in 2020 was the lack of a Green party spoiler candidate”?
Babale, I acknowledge that the candidate I’m most likely to vote for is a flawed candidate of a flawed political party. Yours is, too.
I also acknowledge (whether you do or don’t) that my vote within the state of New York is not going to be a determinant of how New York casts its electoral votes this year. Hence the Trump v Harris contest is not going to be affected by how I vote and I’m free to use my vote according to whatever strategy or expediency concern I find drives me the most.
During recent decades I have gravitated towards the Greens because, a), they support an initiative that I think increases the clout of each individual voter with very little downside — ranked choice voting — which the Democratic Party ignores or actively opposes, and b) they are a small mostly grass-roots party (even if there’s some astroturfing and ratfucking going on from outside) which means I may be able to get some local and regional folks interested in my own ideas in a way that I would not within the Democratic Party.
Did you have a point you were attempting to make, or just wanted to fling disgruntlement at the Green Party of the United States? You could certainly make the case that they deserve it; as I said, they’re a flawed party. Just like yours is.
I think bothsidesing Stein and Harris is bullshit.
I can get behind this though. We use ranked choice voting in Washington State for the primaries and it’s pretty great, and I’d like to see it become more the norm for voting everywhere.
I do too
The solution is to let Democrats know that their constituents want ranked choice voting so they switch to supporting it, not supporting a joke of a third party that’s run by Russia and has a snowball’s chance in hell of bringing about meaningful change.
That’s cute that you believe that.
Candidate for “Understatement of the Year” award.
My point is that voting for Russian stooge Jill Stein is fucking stupid. Hence why I called you out in the Russian Propaganda thread.
If you support the Green Party you’re a Trump supporter.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say no SDMB members are directly in the pay of the Putin regime.
On the other hand there is a tendency on some parts of the far left to jump from “the US is not always 100% in the right, sometimes they ally themselves people who are not entirely on the side of the angles, and not everyone who opposed them is evil incarnate” straight to “the US is 100% evil incarnate, everyone they are allied to are too, and anyone who opposed them is entirely on the side of the angles”
Russia is happy to spend a lot of money to encourage that view.
I see you’ve never spoken with Kedikat…
Yep, exactly. “America Bad” is the first and only tenant.
No doubt…
Ironically they are also spending huge amounts of cash to support the opposite point of view, that America is perfect in its God-given gun totin’ awesomeness but is being brought down from within by the woke mind virus and all the gay brown people, with their vaccines and drag story times
People make the mistake of thinking that Russian Propaganda is just about convincing you that America is bad and Russia is good. But that’s not quite right. Certainly, I’m sure they’d love it if they could accomplish something like that; but it’s not really doable. You can’t convince all Americans that Putin’s invasion of Ukraine is good, actually; and even if you did, eventually the narrative would break down when you conquer Finland or Poland.
Instead, Putin’s goal is to convert Americans to a nihilistic world view. Only a tiny minority might be convinced that America is bad and Russia is good, but a much wider pool can be convinced that EVERYONE bad, nothing is special about Russia, so why care?
You can see this with @ahunter3’s Dear Leader’s statement on Putin.
For context, Jill Stein was giving an interview where she was asked if Putin was a war criminal, and she refused to answer. Then, the next week, after consulting with her Russian handlers and getting their permission, she said:
Do you see the insidious nature of her actions? First, she refuses to label Putin a “war criminal”; the she does, but only after rendering the term completely meaningless.
If everyone is a war criminal, nobody is. Putin is a war criminal, just like Barack Obama - they are equally bad.
Jill Stein is the queen of bothsidesrism.
That is fucking insidious. Unbelievable. How is she the leader of a national party? Its shameful.
One can be legitimately critical of US foreign policy and military actions, but there is no excuse for this false equivalency bullshit. This is obvious tanky / russian influence.
Ive been supportive of the Greens in Canada in the past, and I like the idea of a party based on sustainability, but this isnt that. Elizabeth May has been off the rails a few times with the Canada Greens, and I would never support anyone unscientific enough to bogeyman WIFI, but that is mothing on the scale of refusing to condem the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
The thing is, if you want this, you need to support a state-level party that supports this, because it’s the states that run elections.
Are there Green Parties running in many/most states? If not, support for this is just talk.
That’s the biggest problem with far too many third parties in the US - they only seem to want the big prize, of the Presidency and maybe a few Senators. If you were really serious about forming a new national party, what you should be doing is forming 50 state parties, getting yourselves on the map in more local elections, and then building on that in later years on the national level.
Naaah, it’s totally just - how did @AHunter3 put it? - “over the top ideological purity”. /s
I ask again - pure devotion to which ideology leads one to this conclusion?
A few years back, I was at one of the major public transit hubs in Philly. I was approached by a representative of a political party asking if I would sign a petition. This happened fairly often and sometimes the petition was for a cause I supported. The woman told me that she was a representative for the Green party and that the petition was to either ( I don’t recall which) reduce or eliminate a tax on gasoline. I refused to sign and asked why the hell a party whosde chief cause was the environment would oppose something that resulted in people using less gasoline? She did not answer. I still cannot figure it out. After that, I lost what little respect I had for the Green party.
Also she’s a GREEN politician supporting Putin who in addition to being a megalomaniacal authoritarian mass murderer, is someone whose whole freaking deal is fossil fuels. That’s his entire power base, his whole political platform is selling loads loads of Russian fossil fuels. Putins Russia has been described as Saudi Arabia with vodka.
If you are saying environmental issues are all that matters, even more than human life and freedom, there is one politician you should be singling out for condemnation: Vladimir Putin
We must destroy the earth to save it!
Does the fact that the Stein campaign is explicitly aimed at harming Harris and helping Trump impact your vote?
No, because you have to destroy the Democratic Party in order to rebuild it properly. If AHunter3 needs to die in a gulag in the Fascist Totalitarian State it’s a price they are willing to pay.