The thing about appellate oral arguments is that they are, frankly, not too important. An appeal is probably 90% about the briefing and 10% about the oral argument. Yes, sometimes critical points can be clarified in oral argument, but in most cases the case is won or lost on the papers.
This is particularly true on a court like the US Supreme Court. You know all of the Justices are familiar with the arguments, having considered the petition for certorari and, most likely, read the merits briefs (or at least their law clerk’s summaries) before oral argument. Very often particular judges will have decided their view of the case based on the papers, and unless something really bizzare would have come out on oral argument, it would make no difference to that particular judge. This was most likely the case for Justice Ginsberg on this case. On other cases she is much more engaged.
You’ll notice that the article focused on Justice Kennedy, considered to be the swing vote in this case, who was extremely engaged, peppering both sides with questions.
I call foul on the cite. Its an opinion piece, not a news report. It also cites Bloomberg news, which has no mention of Ginsburg sleeping in its article about the case:
No, I would say it sucks, but we have no choice, do we? We have to suck it up–as do our children. That’s the way it is.
She looks so damned frail, it’s a wonder that she doesn’t nod off more often. I am also for some kind of term limit (even 20 years) instead of life appointments.
Would it matter if Thomas slept through each and every single argument, discussion, luncheon or bathroom break? Is there anything to suggest that he would come to any different conclusion than could be predicted for him based on what someone argued before him? Asleep or not, I’m sure he already knows exactly what he is going to conclude.
I have to admit that if I was a lawyer arguing my first case before the Supreme Court and some of the Justices nodded off, I’d feel horrible. But then, how are lawyers supposed to feel?
All I’m saying is that I went to Georgetown Law, which is a ten-minute walk from the Supreme Court, and law students would often go over to watch oral arguments. And it was a standing source of amusement that Justice Thomas not only very rarely asked questions, but could usually be seen with his eyes closed for some extended period of the proceedings. Don’t remember if anyone ever reported him snoring.
Nor did we consider it a really big deal. Oral arguments, frankly, are less important to who wins or loses a case than are the briefs that the parties submit beforehand. The main purpose of the oral arguments is to allow the Justices the opportunity to raise questions and points of clarification regarding the parties’ positions and to attempt to sway their colleagues by framing the discussion in a certain way. But very rarely does a Justice go into oral arguments without a fairly strong sense of how he or she will likely come out in the case.
I think duffer already reversed his initial position in post #10, after learning from tomndebb that Rehnquist sometimes skipped oral arguments altogether but still participated in deciding the case.
When I see your cite I will be. If it’s routine for justices to rely on transcripts more than the actual Orals, I guess I have no problem with that, especially for an older judge like RBG. But if that’s the case ISTM they ought to just stay home.
As part of my job I routinely have to attend tedious staff meetings that are 99% irrelevant to my responsibilities. I get out of them whenever I can, and just glance over the minutes for anything I need to know. I don’t feel it’s inappropriate for me to do so; I do think it would be highly unprofessional and disrespectful to my collegues for me to go to the meeting and act bored or fall asleep. ISTM that Supreme Court proceedings are just a smidge more august than my crappy little job.
I’ve provided my cite. If anecdotal evidence and personal observation of something that’s widely known in the Washington legal community isn’t good enough for you, then that’s fine. I don’t care enough about your opinion one way or the other to do the scutwork to track something down online.
I was taught that when a judge falls asleep on the bench, it’s the job of the junior lawyer in the room to drop a book on the floor. Maybe everybody arguing before the SCOTUS is so senior they feel above doing that.
Yeah, it’s a lovely little bit of misdirection. They’re over there in Georgetown, and we’ve got rundown urban neighborhoods on one side and a bureaucratic wasteland on the other. Okay, and the Smithsonian and the Capitol Building. And Union Station. And our facilities are pretty nice. But try finding a cozy cafe in which to study on a Saturday afternoon.
I agree that this isn’t a big deal (and I’ve also thought it isn’t a big deal every time I’ve heard about Thomas dozing off, and boy howdy have I lost count). The thing that is difficult to grasp here is the amount of work being a Justice entails. Having worked on a Supreme Court case in a very minor capacity, I can tell you that the amount of paper that flows for every case is interminable. And the justices, as much as I think various of them get things wrong, are always prepared. Oral arguments aren’t that big a deal most of the time.
