Sabbath Question

[FinsToTheLeft]

@JohnClay

Ranger Jeff:
BTW the reason why people didn’t know how to pronounce God’s name is that I think the Hebrew scriptures didn’t have vowels and since “YHWH” was never pronounced, the pronunciation was lost. Also on some Jewish webpages they write “G-d” for some reason. I wonder what they’d say if they were reading it out loud…

The idea is that the name itself should be treated with reverence. If you have a piece of paper with “God” written on it can’t just be crumpled up and thrown away in the trash. ThE way around this is to not right it out in full. They would say God if reading it.

In Hebrew you would use HaShem in place of Adonai. Adonai would be used in a formal prayer, HaShem in study or casual conversation. This screwed me up at my Bar Mitzvah when I accidentally said HaShem when reciting the blessings, since that is what I had practicesed eleventy bazillion times.

FinsToTheLeft, a non-shomrei shabbos Jew.

[pianodave]

Interesting information, everyone. Thank you.

But these rules about lights and turning on ovens makes me wonder. If an observant Jew goes through all this effort to obey these rules, what happens when they accidentally disobey? I can’t imagine over the course of your lifetime you won’t mess up at least once. With the history of stoning and other harsh penalties applied to the breaking of these laws, it would seem these laws are considered sacrosanct.

So say you mess up. You cook on Shabbat, or do other types of “work” that are expressly prohibited. Do you go to Hell, no chance for redemption? I understand Yom Kippur is meant to provide atonement for sins like these. But how many times can you err before calling yourself a bad Jew? Is there a set number of mulligans allowed? I mean, following rules is great, but if your perspective on how well you follow them is subjective, then it seems to have little purpose other than to make you feel like you’re doing better than the other guy.

And maybe us contemporary folk realized this and let the Orthodox judge themselves on how holy they are.

In all seriousness, would an observant Jew just say “Oh shit, I messed up. I’ll do better next time?” Would he or she mark it down as a sin they committed and move on, with the intent to expiate it at the next opportunity? Would they go to their rabbi for guidance? Is there a system of penance similar to Christian confession within Orthodox Jewry?

Another possibility is that they follow these laws more to help cement their own feelings of belonging to their religion. I don’t have a problem with this idea on its face, but it seems like there are easier ways to do so than going out of one’s way to make one’s daily routine more difficult and inconvenient.

In regards to the idea that lifesaving work is allowed, among other issues, I wonder how the provider of such services would feel knowing that everyone else is resting and they are working, or knowing that this law doesn’t apply to them. Might they not wonder why they go through the trouble of following other laws if they can successfully put aside this one?

Thanks for all your help.
Dave

[Chronos]

Any Jew can put any of the Laws aside (with the two exceptions mentioned above) if it’s necessary to save a life. The doctor who works on the Sabbath is still bound by all of the other laws, just like any other Jew: He can almost certainly afford to buy kosher food, for instance, and will be expected to do so. In fact, he’s still bound by the law against working on the Sabbath: He’d be allowed to perform an emergency surgery on the Sabbath, but he still won’t schedule any elective procedures or routine check-ups on that day. Further, the exception applies to everyone: It might be more likely to come up for a doctor, but if any Jew witnessed a bad car crash while he was walking to the synagogue, he’d be allowed to call 911, even though using electrical devices would ordinarily be prohibited.

[SpyOne]

@BigT

Seems timers would be better, so it makes me think that maybe they aren’t allowed. It sure seems like they should be, seeing as you can have another person do it for you.

I am not Jewish, but I have enjoyed learning of their observances for years.

Some people feel the prohibition is not just on working, but on causing work to be done. This can make them … seem passive aggressive.
See, saying to a non-Jewish friend, “Could you please do a load of laundry for me?” would be causing work to be done. But if you just say, “There is laundry that needs to be done”, then you were only mentioning facts, and that the other person then chose to do work isn’t your fault.

I recently read about a company that invented a light switch for use on the sabath. It is designed so that when you turn it on or off, it doesn’t always work. That is, you might switch it off but the light stays on. This uncertainty of result means that throwing the switch doesn’t count as “doing work” or “causing work to be done”. their experts assure them.

[ziper1221]

Whats the difference between turning a knob that sparks the stove igniter and asking your friend to light it for you?

[Telemark]

@pianodave

I don’t have a problem with this idea on its face, but it seems like there are easier ways to do so than going out of one’s way to make one’s daily routine more difficult and inconvenient.

Jews follow the laws of the Torah because they are God’s laws and they are bound to follow them. They don’t need any other reasons. Jews believe that studying the intricacies and nuances of the laws brings them closer to understanding God’s will.

[friedo]

@SpyOne

I recently read about a company that invented a light switch for use on the sabath. It is designed so that when you turn it on or off, it doesn’t always work. That is, you might switch it off but the light stays on. This uncertainty of result means that throwing the switch doesn’t count as “doing work” or “causing work to be done”. their experts assure them.

This seems rather unnecessary as setting a timer before the Sabbath is generally acceptable, and light switch timers are readily available.

[watchwolf49]

@panache45

[pet peeve]
wAndering
[/pet peeve]

[hangs head in shame] That’s a pet peeve of mine as well.

[Hari_Seldon]

Let me begin this by quoting a well-known aphorism: Two Jews, three opinions.

It is an exaggeration to say that there are as many answers to this question as there are observant Jews. It is now 1:24 EST, which means it is well past sundown in Europe and further east, so we might get some informed opinions soon.

But it has been a minor amusement over the years to discover how various sects interpret these rules. At least one observant Jew I know in Israel had his lights on a timer that must have turned them off on Friday night and turned them on at 3 on a Saturday afternoon in April 40 years ago. My (non-Jewish) DIL was working at Beth Israel Hospital in NYC some years ago and the first time she discovered the Shabbos elevator that went up and down endlessly, stopping at every floor she was astounded. There were other elevators that operated normally. Food will not be cooked, but it might be left on a very low light all night and the next day, just to keep it warm. Telephones will not be answered. Nowadays you can uplug them all and turn off your cell phone.

But in my mind, the most amusing thing concerns the eruv. There is a prohibition against “carrying” on Sabbath. Amusingly, in some languages, e.g. French, the word to carry and to wear are identical, but I don’t think it extends to not wearing clothes by anybody. One result is that when you walk to Shul (synagogue) on Sabbath, your pockets are empty. So what do you do about a key? Some people, I imagine, just leave their houses unlocked. Some just carry keys. In Brooklyn, I have seen doors with combination locks on them. I guess turning the dials (or pushing the buttons) doesn’t count as work. But carrying is allowed inside your dwelling.

For some, this opens an out. Suppose you declare that some large area is your dwelling. But it has to be delimited in some way. This is called an eruv. The usual way is to create a conceptual boundary of overhead wires. In my town, a suburb of Montreal, some people got together and designated collection of wires as an eruv and blessed them. (I might mention that, although no new wires had been strung, some other people in the town took strong objection to this.) At any rate, it is now legitimate to carry things in this town so long as you stay inside the eruv.

Some years ago I was walking down Flatbush Ave. in Brooklyn with my wife and she spotted a thin wire hanging far above the sidewalk and asked me what it was for. You have to understand that NYC does not generally permit overhead wires. Back when there was a trolleycar on 42nd St., it got its current from a wire through a slot in the street. So I guessed it was an eruv. I asked an orthodox Jew of my acquaintance and he agreed that’s what it was. He also told that there is an organization that strings this. And that there is another organization that goes around taking them down because the latter think you can’t fool God.

I could go on and on with these stories, but I stop here. Warning: I probably got some details wrong because I am totally non-practicing.

[Digital_is_the_new_Analog]

@Senegoid

Thus, the popularity (even to this day at least in Orthodox circles) of hiring a “Shabbas Goy”, a non-Jew, to do the dirty work (e.g., turning the lights on and off in the synagogue) on Sabbath Day.

@SpyOne

Some people feel the prohibition is not just on working, but on causing work to be done. This can make them … seem passive aggressive.
See, saying to a non-Jewish friend, “Could you please do a load of laundry for me?” would be causing work to be done. But if you just say, “There is laundry that needs to be done”, then you were only mentioning facts, and that the other person then chose to do work isn’t your fault.

My understanding is that the synagogue hires a “Sabbas Goy”, but specifically does not ask them to turn the lights on or such. That’s just something he does on his own…his real job is supposed to be something else.

I’d have to ask some of my rabbinical friends to know for sure.