'Sadamn' and Bin Laden, Martyr risk?

[Spite]

I keep hearing the question asked, like it is a pivotal one in the current admin’s actions, about where ‘Sadamn’ (I always got tickled the way the elder Bush pronounced his name the first time I heard it in the early '90’s) And Ossama are. As a matter of fact they are supposedly as important as the question of where the WMD in Iraq are.

I, personally, do not see that the capture, or deaths of these creatures, should be considered endemic to the status of our “successes” in our endeavors against terrorism and proliferation of WMD. It would be a salve and a sense of justice to see them both hanging from the largets tree on the south Whitehouse lawn until they rot away, but was that ever our stated goals? The success should be measured by the way we have curtailed there abilities to cause harm. If we had just went after those two individuals, it is more than likely someone just as bad or worse would fill the vaccuumes such assasinations would have created.

The success of the goals I stated can be debated. I am not quantifying the success of the actions our governments have taken. I am just asserting that the wherabouts of these two individuals should not define said successes.

Although I have no evidence that such is the case, isn’t it possible that the current administration has realised that the public ‘deaths’ and ‘executions’ of these two leaders could create martyrs of them?

With the ‘unknown’ quality with these two, it is hard to put a martyr label on them. I am sure there supporters would rather believe they have, somewhat outsmarted " the Great Satan" and there whereabouts and coditions are more ikely of their own doing, than of the evil superior force.

So, assuming such could be possible, and also assuming the administration can use finesse and tact when it is not trying to sell the world on a war, would we ever know the true whereabouts or status of them? Even if the government knew, but decided a martyr is not what they wanted, could they afford to do anything else but play dumb until this mess is well past over?

I know this is alot of assuming and speculation I am proposing, but considering the little we have to assume and the likelyhood that two such unloved, high profile, villians can get away from the intelligence and wrath of the rest of the world that pretty much hates them, what is more likely? That just because you think Bush is a boob that it somehow gave both these phsycopath a heavy dose of blessings of Allah, or that the rest of the world’s abilities and intelligence has somehow gotten as dumb?

[Marley23]

It would be a salve and a sense of justice to see them both hanging from the largets tree on the south Whitehouse lawn until they rot away, but was that ever our stated goals?

Well, Bush DID say “We want justice, and there’s an old poster out West, I recall, that says “Wanted: Dead or Alive.””
So yeah, for bin Laden at least, it sort of was a stated aim. He said that kind of thing more than once.

isn’t it possible that the current administration has realised that the public ‘deaths’ and ‘executions’ of these two leaders could create martyrs of them?

Saddam tried to put himself in the position of a future martyr. Almost nobody bought it. He’s not a fundamentalist or a religious figure, he was just a maniacal, greedy killer. So for him, I’d say no - he’s a hero to a few, but not to a movement.
With bin Laden, yes, that’s a possibility, and one he rather wants perhaps. He at least (so we’re told) prepared for it in Afghanistan, asking one of his sons to kill him if capture was imminent. I’d rather he be caught and tried by an international court (he’s committed crimes against many countries, so the idea that America gets to seek justice about him wouldn’t fly, in my opinion). And not killed. It’s probably not better to have him out there - getting him wouldn’t destroy Al Qaeda, but he is its public face and he does run things to whatever degree.

assuming the administration can use finesse and tact when it is not trying to sell the world on a war

I think you might as well assume the ocean is pink, but go on…

Even if the government knew, but decided a martyr is not what they wanted, could they afford to do anything else but play dumb until this mess is well past over?

No, I think it’d be too big a feather in the people’s caps to keep quiet. Whoever catches him, and pretty much anybody involved, would be set for life. And are you gonna tell me the Bush administration - or anybody else - wouldn’t want credit for catching bin Laden? If it ever happens, you’ll hear about it.

[Marley23]

considering the little we have to assume and the likelyhood that two such unloved, high profile, villians can get away from the intelligence and wrath of the rest of the world that pretty much hates them, what is more likely? That just because you think Bush is a boob that it somehow gave both these phsycopath a heavy dose of blessings of Allah, or that the rest of the world’s abilities and intelligence has somehow gotten as dumb?

No, I think for once, things actually are as they appear. Saddam could be in Iraq or several other countries, and hard to track down. Bin Laden is in a lawless (and large) region on the Pakistan/Afghan border. That’s not really news, there are people who would help him there. It has little to do with Bush (he’s not the one looking for them). On the other hand, despite all the technology America has at its disposal, we don’t do very well with intelligence work at times. Intelligence agencies were pretty clueless about September 11th (and the evidence was plainly there), they’ve messed up plenty of things since, too.
And if your last suggestion is that not only is the US keeping it quiet, but other governments too? No, I can’t say I buy that either. That strikes me as even less likely. Plenty of people would love to crow about finding either one of those two.