I watch a lot of animation and play a lot of video games. I agree that someone like me is more likely to pay attention to who is doing the acting and have it be meaningful in my decision making. Some of it is similar to big-budget animated movies these days as opposed to what you still see in television or low-budget productions. For example, Pixar seems to have really started the known-actor casting with Toy Story.
But sometimes it definitely matters. For someone of my age and interests, Kevin Conroy is Batman and Mark Hamill is Joker (and Batman: The Animated Series is still the best adaptation out there) and having both those actors do the Arkham series helped make the game.
As a game developer, I’d be a lot more open to voice and mocap actors getting residuals if SAG-AFTRA would work to bring us under their umbrella. The actors want a share of the game’s profits for a couple of weeks of work; I’d be happy to not have to worry about finding a job when the game ships after my years of work and months of unpaid overtime.
…should SAG-AFTRA also work to bring directors, producers, stunt workers and cleaners under their umbrella as well?
Why don’t you join the game developers guild? Oh, that guild doesn’t exist? If you want better protections for developers in your industry: then you should be prepared to fight for it. The SAG actors have chosen as a group to withhold services to get try to get the (IMHO very reasonable) conditions they have advanced. Is that something you are willing to do?
You shouldn’t have to work for unpaid overtime. Crunch should be the very rare exception, not the rule. But you shouldn’t expect someone else to fight the battle for you. I have a huge amount of sympathy for you. But what are you, and other game developers, doing to change the industry? Why is it the actors unions responsibility to make things better for you?
But why SAG? Why not United Steel Workers? Or maybe form your own union? There’s no obvious reason that a screen actors union should be trying to organize programmers.
One thing I didn’t notice anyone bring up is this would of course impact games with a direct tie in to a blockbuster movie.
Other than media-based games where having the same voice actors as the original media is a significant marketing draw, I don’t expect the strike to have much effect.
Does SAG-AFTRA expect that members of other unions will refuse to cross their picket line?
If they do, is that an example of expecting others to fight for you?
Now, as to their reasonable conditions: I agree. Their conditions are reasonable. But so, too (in my opinion) is a game company that says, in effect, “We can get by producing product without SAG-AFTRA members’ involvement that will sell essentially as well as the content produced with SAG-AFTRA members’ involvement. So we’re going to pass.”
But the problem with my opinion in that last sentence is: it’s uninformed. I don’t know enough about video games that use voice talent and motion capture to reliably assess the truth of my opinion. Despite Banquet Bear’s chiding above, this does not seem to be a question readily answered by either Google or wilwheaton.net.
You could characterise it that way, though it’s not necessarily “expected”. But inter-union solidarity is a different thing than what Ligthnin’ is suggesting. He’s also way off by suggesting voice actors won’t have to worry about a job if they get video game residuals.
Actually, what we’re mostly doing is trying to keep our jobs. Organizing a union sounds like a great idea- any idea on how to do that, exactly? 'Cause it’s something we’ve been trying to do for a long time now.
Why should the actor’s union try to make things better for us? Because by demanding a larger cut of the pie, they’re making things worse for us- that money’s gotta come from someplace. I, personally, have zero sympathy for actors who would like more money- maybe if the actors’ union tried to work *with *us, instead of against us, they’d find us a lot more sympathetic for their cause.
Contact the AFL-CIO and ask them how to go about getting collective bargaining for your industry. Heck, call SAG-AFTRA’s lawyer. I’m sure they would be happy to offer you some advice.
But don’t expect them to bargain on your behalf when you haven’t asked for collective bargaining for yourself.
People sacrificed their careers and literally their lives for collective rights. Take the step.
Why should actors be any more sympathetic to your cause? Expecting a union you aren’t a member of to start fighting for you, in your completely different work sector, is pretty darn silly. And it’s not like your sympathy means anything, you are a bunch of unorganized rats in cages.
That’s fair but, given that there are only X many dollars to distribute when a game is made and sold, it’s also fair to prioritize which people involved you think are most deserving of getting more. So while Wheaton has a perfectly valid reason to fight solely for his own circle, that’s not especially compelling to me as an argument why I should care about his fight (certainly to the point of dedicating effort into that over that of the developers, coders, etc).
I mean, good luck to them and all, but I can’t see why I should want to see the extra dollars going to them and not the development teams. And asking about it seems like a legitimate response from any gamer who is being asked to care/support one way or the other.
You are of course free to lay your sympathies wherever you like but we should remember this isn’t about the Tom Cruises of the world demanding extra cash while lounging in their swimming pools.
True. But that’s why I think Bricker had a perfectly valid point in asking about the relative labor of voice acting in a game versus the other aspects of developing it. The Wheaton quote given in response didn’t really address it but rather side-stepped it with a “Hey, not my problem; I’m just looking after my own”.
I would never argue that voice acting takes more skill or knowledge than programming but there is skill and knowledge required. They aren’t asking for pay equity with programmers. Did you see the quote above of what they are asking for regarding secondary payments? $3k for every 2 million units moved, up to a maximum of ~$12k. That’s peanuts.
Understood. Like I said, I have no actual objection to their fight. But I don’t see any real reason to care about it either, at least to the extent of lending them support that could be lent instead to the other people involved with the development.
Is the relevant inquiry “Can the company afford it?”
I’d say it’s not. I say the relevant inquiry is, “Is it the fair market value of the work?” And ‘fair,’ means what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller. If BrickVideoMagic can hire people who will work without requiring $3K for every 2 million units, why should I pay someone else that $3K?
And I don’t know how factually answerable Bricker’s question is since I’m unaware of any publicly available polling showing precisely what little features of games induces people to buy or recommend a game.
I wasn’t talking about if they could afford it. Jophiel was asking “if we are going to take away profit and give it to the workers, which workers should get it?” I am saying splitting $3k amongst the programmers is next to meaningless.
Yeah, but that’s for a few weeks of work, and without any travel (in my experience, the sound team flies out to where the talent is, not the other way around).
Just a data point I’d like to add: The talent pool of professional voice actors who have agency representation but are** not** SAG-AFTRA members is vast, particularly in the San Francisco Bay Area and greater Los Angeles area. I’m one of them*. In my experience, the bulk of video game voice work is done by non-union actors (looked up some numbers and apparently it’s over 75%).
*It’s possible you’ve heard me but I guarantee you’ve never heard of me.
