Since we’re talking about single instances of sales, wouldn’t we expect to see bigger swings in the next cycle of games?
That is to say, if the latest Pokemon comes out and is for some reason a terrible dross game, I think it’d sell pretty well - on past history, on lack of believing/reading reviews, pre-orders, and so on. It’s the *next *game that would see a big sale drop. Essentially, in order for a sub-par product to lose customers, the customers have to experience that sub-par product. Look at No Man’s Sky.
Oh, he’s being combative but I wouldn’t have put the “just” in front of it. You started a thread about an 8 month old strike that is clearly not going well. The union has a very limited presence in the industry they are striking against. They have struck some minor deals but you want exact details before you even consider that these signal even minor success. I have no doubt that your ignorance of the industry is real but I also have little doubt that you are certain this is a union fail. This thread is a victory dance with a tiny dash of “but hey, prove me wrong!”
…this isn’t the debate. We aren’t talking about the strike. We are talking about how pivotal voice talent is to the success of some video games. Pre and post strike effects on revenue won’t say anything at all about voice talent: especially if you are including video games that don’t use voice acting talent. There are way too many variables at play to use revenue as a metric to determine the effect of voice acting on the success of video games. There are seasonal and regional variations. Tent-pole releases. Big franchises like Assassin’s Creed just had a two year break between releases instead of their normal one.
Show your work. Show the sales figures. Show your analysis. I wasn’t asking for your theory. I was asking you “using real world measurable results, please justify your conclusion that “it isn’t too early to tell.””
Have you determined that the strike is a failure already? This isn’t about time. Its about metrics. My definition of “failure”, the guilds definition of “failure”, the voice actors definitions of “failure” and your definition of “failure” are all going to be wildly different. If the voice actors get everything except residuals many people would consider that a failure, but the voice actors might consider that a success. They can fight for residuals another day. But safety on set and concerns for the long term health of the voice are things that cannot and should not wait.
At this stage its a pretty pointless question unless you come up with a definition we can all agree on.
Is yours?
Well DUH.
The fucking irony.
If you stopped making this about me, then people will probably stop making this about you. I wish you and others would stop personalising this. Its like you’ve never had a debate before.
You chose to post this thread here in Great Debates: so we are having a Great Debate. If you had posted this in general questions I would have given you a general answer, if you had posted in the game room I probably would have ignored it, if you had have posted in the pit you would be even more annoyed with me. But you posted here in Great Debates: so I’m challenging your ideas, I’m asking for cites, I’m asking for evidence, I’m offering an alternative point of view, I’m pointing out every time you make a logical contradiction. This is what we do here. I’m posting the same way as I have since I joined the boards in 2002. So just stop making this about me already.
Absolutely. Here are some events that would falsify my position: strike ends with residuals granted. Strike ends with the two hours vs. four hours for same pay granted. Strike ends with a guarantee of “actual title of the project and the role being hired for being made available before signing a contract,” granted.
Now, is there any concrete event that would falsify your position?
…yah know, I did you the courtesy of addressing all of your other points. At this stage I’m going to take your decision to cherry pick this single point as a decision to concede that I am right on all the points you chose not to address. Is that fair?
No. But the question in play right now is pivotal. If no outcome would falsify your belief, then all other questions about the details are irrelevant: no variants of results will change your mind. So discovering your answer to this question is the requisite gateway.
…piffle. The world will not end if I choose not to answer your question. This great debate does not hinge on ignoring every question I have put to you but answering the single question you have put to me. Don’t hold me to a standard you refuse to hold yourself too. I’ve asked you to use the metric you determined was fundamental to a games success (revenue) to show how pivotal voice talent is to that games success. If you can ignore that question then I can ignore this one.
We aren’t debating the fucking strike. You still haven’t explained how the strike relates to the topic that you said you wanted to debate, which is how pivotal voice talent is to the success of some video games. Which is the debate you want to have?
But I will indulge you. If Joss Whedon makes a song about how the SAG-AFTRA strike of 2016 has made him sad, then that would falsify my position on the relative “success” or “failure” of this particular strike. That is my answer to your question. Now are you going to answer any of mine?
I answered with some very clear examples of what would make my position false. See post 165.
Nope. Because none of the answers to your questions reasonably relate to Joss Whedon writing a song. So no matter what I answer, it won’t budge you from your position.
But now I know where you stand: you believe the strike will have failed only if Joss Whedon writes a song about it. A sad song. So I’m confident that your ability to analyze anything meaningful about this strike is to be dismissed. And I’m doing so.
You’ve cited Joss Whedon’s song as evidence of “what happens when the striking group overestimates its value to the industry.” I’m using Whedon’s song-writing ability to falsify my position. Whedon’s song writing ability is simply magical. It can settle debates, don’t you know? That is why you bought him up in the first place, wasn’t it?
My position on the strike is that the strike is likely to come to an end when both sides come to an agreement, there will be compromise, and both sides will declare victory. I haven’t declared nor am I predicting a “winner” because as far as I’m concerned if the voice actors are happy with the eventual resolution then I am happy too. What does “budging from that position” look like?
WE AREN’T DEBATING THE STRIKE.
WE ARE DEBATING HOW PIVOTAL VOICE TALENT IS TO THE SUCCESS OF SOME VIDEO GAMES.
This is the topic you claimed you wanted to debate. But you keep wanting to have another debate about something else. I’ll ask you again: WHAT IS IT YOU WANT TO DEBATE?
Well, we’ll get some idea on how things are working out at the end of August when the Life is Strange sequel “Before the Storm” launches with non-union voice talent. It’s a very narrative-driven game with a lot of dialogue.
Just because it’s a data point, “Before the Storm” launched to excellent reviews (80%+ range) from gaming publications and is rated “Overwhelmingly Positive” on Steam despite going with non-union voice talent over Ashly Burch. I know some people made a fuss about it (such as Felicia Day who said she’d never play it now) but the general gaming public doesn’t seem to care about the changes.
Ms Burch won an Emmy a few days ago for an animation project so don’t feel too bad for her
I was correct in my very first post was I not? We can’t falsify your position at this very minute can we? In order to falsify your position we need to do the very thing I suggested in the first place? The suggestion that you proceeded to argue with me over for most of this thread?
Do you think a single data point proves your assertion that “voice talent is not pivotal to the success of some video games?” Will you apply that to every position you hold in Great Debates?
Are you already classifying “Before the Storm” a success even without any sales figures?
