sailing upwind w/ prop. = not sailing

this was 1st asked in gen questions some time ago. I couldn’t find it and since this is my own opinion, I post it here.
I think sailor asked is it possible to make a sailboat using a windmill connected to a prop that could sail upwind.
after some time he announced that he constructed such a craft and it could ‘sail’ upwind. and went on to explain that it qualifies as sailing, and that sailing is using 2 fluids at diffrent velocities for propulsion. under that maybe it is - but to me that’s not ness. sailing.

so I have to rule that the craft he invented and tested is a wind powered screw driven watercraft. saying it is a sailing craft would be like saying a solar powered model car is a solar sail land rover.

if it was sailor, or whoever built such a craft, this is not ment to be a put down. in fact that was a very intersting post. but this has bothered me and I finally came to terms with it.

Under USCG rules, I think it would not be considered sailing.

Here is the original thread.
You’ve been thinking about this all this time? My, my…

Well, if you have read other threads I have participated in you have seen i do not usually take sides on sematic arguments. You give me your definition of sailing and I will tell you if this is sailing or not. I do not care much one way or the other.

If your definition of sailing is something like “moving a vessel through the water using solely the energy from the wind” then it is sailing.

If your definition of sailing is “moving a vessel through the water using solely the energy from the wind using sails in the traditional way” then it is not sailing.

There is no way to find support for either usage since sailing upwind using rotary sails is not widespread. You are free to decide on your own usage.

On my boat I am the boss and if I want to call it sailing then that’s what i’ll call it. Different ships, different splices, as the saying goes.

Over the years I have participated in arguments about the names of things that are or were common and widespread and yet the terminology was never perferctly established. I have participated in arguments about what exactly is a schooner or a cutter or a sloop or a hermaphrodite brigantine and these were built and sailed by the thousands. To argue whether sailing upwind using rotary sails really can be called sailing is kind of silly.

In the age of sail there was a perception that “real” ships had square sails and vessels rigged fore and aft were less than real sailships. Of course, a fore and aft rigged ship will beat to windward way better and requires a much smaller crew. All the sailors of square rigged vessels had left was their pride that “real” sailing was done with square sails even if they were lousy in many respects.

The old saying was (and is) that “gentlemen don’t sail to windward”.

And all that about wodden ships and iron men. Yeah, metal ships are not really traditional so maybe they should not count either.

As I say, whatever pleases you. I am not going to argue this.

My point was if it could be done and the answer is yes. The semantical side of this does not really interest me. (But I can assure you that, on my boat, every tomato that ever came aboard was a vegetable)

As an occasional sailor, I must ask out of curiosity, what type of boat do you have? And would you happen to need an extra crewman? Damn, I need to get back out on the water.

thanks sailor for the link.

waterj2, I have a 35’ sloop on the Chesapeake Bay. Unfortunately it is out of commission now as it was hit by lightning and suffered some severe damage. Even though the insurance will pay for the repairs, it still means I will have a ton of work to do myself. It seems this season is pretty much gone for me.