I don’t know if this will help, but possibly it will.
On monday I will call back a fellow who confirmed a job offer with me Friday. As he put it to me on Friday, they’ve never hired my particular position before and don’t know what to offer me. That’s a bit transparent; they’re in the business and can check it out as well as I can. I have consulted for this company for five years and the fellow I’m talking to is not unknown to me, but, if some of the above scenarios are to be taken to heart, perhaps it’s a ploy to get me to talk money first.
I also know that this company does not pay top dollar, but they do killer bonuses and have played a pretty conservative hand, thus allowing them to avoid the layoffs common to my industry. So, to play, I’ve got to talk dollars first. And it’s a decent company to work for.
What I did was survey some of my fellows at various companies (guys I’ve known long enough to ask and get a straight answer) who have experience comparable to mine. I also sought out whatever salary surveys I could find and found one good supporting one in a parallel profession (AAPG survey for geologists - I’m a geophysicist). So, I have a real time survey and some supporting documentation (the Bureau of Labor Statistics site Occupational Outlook survey supports my contention that geophysicists make a little bit more than geologists, but the numbers cited are abysmally low - starting salaries and government salaries - that I doubt I’ll cite them).
I’ll quote them an accurate appraisal of my own survey results and cite the salary survey I found and then give them a $5K range. My bottom line will be, knowing what I know about them, $5K below the bottom end of my proposed range.
So, you’re not that long out of school; can you survey your chums? I’m far enough down the line and have good enough relations with the ones I asked that I don’t think anybody felt the need to lie to me. Also, can you dig up any salary survey info that supports your bid?
Another good answer is, “I’d be willing to accept going market rates for someone of my experience and skill level”, if you think the market rates are pretty good.
In your case, since you haven’t lived in that area, you can plausibly say that you don’t want to name a number because you’re not familiar with that local job market.
Worked like a charm! I gave them my 5K range (based on real samples) and, not surprisingly, they came back at the bottom end of it, which was above my bottom line.
Weird day, though. I guess most of us only have a few of these days in our life.
Oh well, I’ve got until the end of the week to respond (it was a little difficult to not scream YES!!! into the phone). And, I have to let their sysadmin buy my workstation.
Holy Moley Hot Patooties, I do this several times A WEEK. I’m a Freelancer, with a sliding scale. Seems to me that ( surprisingly) the same rules apply. What level of skill is required? How long is the job? Any special things about it? What did you expect to pay for the service I will provide?
After 18 years doing this, I have the first 5 minutes down to a hard science. I virtually never underbid my skills any more ( doing pro bono or “on the cheap” for other reasons doesn’t apply here). I know very quickly what I am in for.
Last time I got surprised was when they wanted to shoot at me, and I had no eye protection or ear protection. The Armorer should have had both to offer to me, and so the shot never happened. But, that’s rare. God…to negotiate terms that could last for years? How do you guys do it? There’s MONEY to be made here, just offering a 5 hour seminar on how to bid yourself for a salaried position !!!
Cartooniverse
If you want to kiss the sky, you’d better learn how to kneel.
I’m coming off (yes, I’ll probably take it) a bit over 10 years as an independent consultant, and I’ve had to talk rates manny times. Oh, and I know all about shorting myself (something I put a permanent end to about six years ago). That’s something we all get used to. There’s much manufactured mystique about the salary negotiation, and your initial deal with an outfit you might be looking at 20 years with is important. I think the job I’m probably going to take now is a godsend, but to ask for the money and get it was something I think the years of consulting and knowing that I’ll walk away from a deal that won’t pay allowed me to do.
Okay, related question based on something I saw above. I am currently looking for a new job. I know what my desired (and deserved) salary range is. However, it is FAR above what I’m making now, mainly because I got screwed when I got hired at my current job. (See AWB’s case above - mine was very similar.) Do I have to explain why I’m going so high? (For reference, I make $28,000 a year now, and my desired range for a new job is around 37-42,000.)
Any suggestions? Help!
Winner, SDMB’s Biggest Chat Addict
“Only two things that’ll soothe my soul - cold beer and remote control.”
Are you going to have to prove to a new company what you make today Falcon? If you go to a new company the old one will not likely tell them what you are currently making. Only confirm that you do indeed work there.
I would take the new range of 40K and adjust down so that you look like you have gone for a 10 - 15% increase. Then report that as you current salary. They know that candidates are likely fudging their current salaries and they are not going to pay more than they were planning anyway.
If you are going to be honest, I still do not believe you have to explain, unless they ask you directly why you think you deserve so high a raise. They probably know that some companies underpay and that if you have the skills they need what they should pay you to keep you.
Companies in general understand that they should pay reasonable wages to get and retain good employees.
I’m currently on the employer side of the world. I hired almost 40 people last year, and interviewed many more than that. This is in the software world, not Burger King, so we’re talking a range of maybe 50 - 130k. (not to demean minimum wage, I’ve done my time there.)
An employer will pay what the employee is worth to him/her. There are plenty of criterion, and one of them is what the employee made in the past. So, if you didn’t make an appropriate amount in a past job, don’t mention the past amount.
This whole game is like buying or selling any other commodity. You want to play up your positives. And don’t play down the other guy’s negatives; that’ll just put them in the wrong mood. Talk about your excitement about the new job, and your accomplishments in past jobs. Find relevant past experiences you’ve had that match and talk them up. Look at the whole thing from your potential employers point of view. Try to understand exactly what he/she’s looking for in this new person and job. Then Sell.
Also, the employer has an expectation of what to pay you, based on the value he perceives in you and what he’s seen in past salaries. Before you go in, do some research. Find out what other people in similar positions make. That’s not always easy, but you must try, or you’re walking in at a disadvantage. One way is to interview for jobs you don’t want, and see what you can get there. Another is talking to friends in the industry. Or dig around on-line. Remember that you may be at this new job for years, and once you’re in, it’s generally tough to get huge salary jumps. Do your homework up-front.
Falcon:
Do not let your presnt salary discourage you in any way from competing for a desirable position. When I shifted back into a technical career (systems admin/programming) I took a serious pay cut because the position offered phenomenal training opportunities and I had been away from teh field for 7 years. 18 months later I left that job for exactly double my initial salary (I had received 2 raises in the interim, but it was still a 60% bump). The only thing you need to tell your propective employer is what you can do and how you expect to be rewarded. And always push the envelope during the hiring negotiations.
The best lack all conviction
The worst are full of passionate intensity.
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