Correction: It was in fact President Bush.
Very few people pay nothing, unless you are referring specifically to income and payroll taxes. It is very difficult to avoid sales and excise taxes, and everyone pays property taxes, either directly, or indirectly if they are renting.
Illegal aliens are not eligible for food stamps or housing subsidies. If an eligible citizen or resident alien has an illegal alien living with them, that does not in and of itself remove eligibility, but this is hardly the same as saying illegal aliens can get food stamps.
I don’t know the specifics of how your brother pays the gardner, but in general, it is the employers responsibility to withhold income taxes. However, your claim that the illegal alien contributes nothing in taxes is simply false. He will have to buy something, buy gas, or pay rent at some point.
There are many other incentives for people to hire illegal aliens if they choose to do so, which have nothing to do with income tax (one example: people can generally avoid paying minimum wage to illegal aliens). Do you have any data to support your contention that removing income tax will outweigh all these other incentives?
People in the underground economy pay virtually no taxes…in many instances, they pay their rent via barter of services, and this is huge. The problem is, they get free medical care at tje public expense (go to the emergency room at any inner-city public hospital). They also get food stamps via forged IDs. The reason that a national sales tax would catch these peopel: you would (at a low income level) stand to get a hefty rebate (as a result of filing a tax return);obviuosly you could get NOTHING back with a zero declared income. So, the desire to get their rbates would force these people into legitimacy, and at least force them (by virtue of the sales taxes they paid) to contribute something into the system.
I was given the image of Nixon being interviewed in a glass jar filled with liquid ala Futurama :(.
O heavens no- there’d still be LOADS of loopholes, deductions and outright cheating. In fact the GAO predicts massive black market buying. And the accountants would still have plenty of work- the “repressive tax records required by Federal tax law” are basicly what is required to keep a good double-entry set of books under GAAP. And there’deven more for the CPA to do for individuals. You have to file a MONTHLY tax return (more complicated than a 1040EZ) to get your refunds. Read the damn silly law, instead of what proponents say it will do. Such as this section:
"SEC. 201. CREDITS AND REFUNDS.
`(a) IN GENERAL- Each person shall be allowed a credit with respect to the taxes imposed by section 101 for each month in an amount equal to the sum of–
`(1) such person’s business use conversion credit pursuant to section 202 for such month,
`(2) such person’s intermediate and export sales credit pursuant to section 203 for such month,
`(3) the administration credit pursuant to section 204 for such month,
`(4) the bad debt credit pursuant to section 205 for such month,
`(5) the insurance proceeds credit pursuant to section 206 for such month,
`(6) the transitional inventory credit pursuant to section 902, and
`(7) any amount paid in excess of the amount due.
`(b) CREDITS NOT ADDITIVE- Only one credit allowed by chapter 2 may be taken with respect to any particular gross payment.
`SEC. 202. BUSINESS USE CONVERSION CREDIT.
`(a) IN GENERAL- For purposes of section 201, a person’s business use conversion credit for any month is the aggregate of the amounts determined under subsection (b) with respect to taxable property and services–
`(1) on which tax was imposed by section 101 (and actually paid), and
`(2) which commenced to be 95 percent or more used during such month for business purposes (within the meaning of section 102(b)).
`(b) AMOUNT OF CREDIT- The amount determined under this paragraph with respect to any taxable property or service is the lesser of–
`(1) the product of–
`(A) the rate imposed by section 101, and
`(B) the quotient that is–
`(i) the fair market value of the property or service when its use is converted, divided by
`(ii) the quantity that is 1 minus the tax rate imposed by section 101, or
`(2) the amount of tax paid with respect to such taxable property or service, including the amount, if any, determined in accordance with section 705 (relating to mixed use property).
`SEC. 203. INTERMEDIATE AND EXPORT SALES CREDIT.
`For purposes of section 201, a person’s intermediate and export sales credit is the amount of sales tax paid on the purchase of any taxable property or service purchased for–
`(1) a business purpose in a trade or business (as defined in section 102(b)), or
`(2) export from the United States for use or consumption outside the United States.
`SEC. 204. ADMINISTRATION CREDIT.
`(a) IN GENERAL- Every person filing a timely monthly report (with regard to extensions) in compliance with section 501 shall be entitled to a taxpayer administrative credit equal to the greater of–
`(1) $200, or
`(2) one-quarter of 1 percent of the tax remitted.
`(b) LIMITATION- The credit allowed under this section shall not exceed 20 percent of the tax due to be remitted prior to the application of any credit or credits permitted by section 201"
In other words- you’d have to keep track of every purchase you made- every stinking one. And dudes would be making and forging reciepts- or “dumpster diving” for them. And then- filing refund returns for every kid in the household. you have to know things like “Fair market value”, “export sales credit” etc. Cheating woudl be rampant. In fact, it wouldn’t shock me to find the program getting in negative amounts.
It’s a stupid idea. I also extensively rebutted that website and it’s “Lies” in the thread furt linked us to. Try reading that one, dudes. 
I think the main impetus for the sales tax has been missed in this thread.
As far as I understand, the main goal of moving from income to sales taxes is to make America more competitive on the world market.
The problem is that many other countries raise taxes at least in part in sales taxes. That allows them to keep corporate and business taxes lower, which means the products that they export are cheaper.
So when foreigners buy an American product, they are double-taxed. They pay the tax that was built into the product by U.S. business taxes, and then they pay sales tax in their home country on the purchase.
And when Americans buy foreign products, they are buying cheaper products because there is less of a tax component to their cost. This punishes American manufacturers selling domestically.
Now consider the sales tax. Now, if you import a Hyundai you still have to pay the sales tax on it. But if you export a Ford, there are lower taxes on the export and the price can be lowered.
So if all your taxes are based on domestic sales, your exports go down in cost and imports go up. Mucho trade advantage.
And in fact, this is in keeping with free market principles. If the rest of the world uses one type of taxes, and the U.S. uses another, then there is a built-in distortion in the market. If the world used a common tax scheme, prices would more accurately reflect the comparative advantage of countries, rather than differing tax regimes.
The world seems to me to be moving more towards VAT taxes and flat taxes. Russia now has a flat tax. Canada has a GST. Europe has a sales tax. America is starting to fall out of step, and it’s hurting trade. Or at least, I think that’s what the argument is. I haven’t looked at the issue in enough detail to really have much of an opinion of my own.
No ralph- they’d pay a negative amount, very likely. They’d get back more than they paid through rebates.
Ghods, I hope so.
Interesting. Do you believe it is fair that the wealthy should pair a larger percent of their income in taxes than the middle class?
That should be “pay a larger percentage”.
I hope so. My Ouija board said that Nixon was seriously insulted.
I was struck by a thought upon reading that , I don’t know about down stateside , but up in Canada , deadbeat dads are tracked via T-4 data , on taxes , so they soon find themselves being garnished.
If its just a national sales tax , are a bunch of moms gonna find themselves unable to collect their due ?
Umm, thats if you have the same set up down in the states , obviously
Declan
I am not totally sure how the GST works , but because of the way that the canadian economy works , we don’t have a huge internal market that would put that to the test.
Even Cars that are made in oakville, aliston or what have you , are subject to NAFTA, so that a car made in Canada should be the same price as one sold in the US , with currency conversion taken into account for the base price .
So all you should be paying , is GST/PST , so with just imported products say coming from china , india or where ever , its easy enough not to worry that your paying tax upon tax from widget to final product.
Service based industrys , I would have no problem believing that they are passing on anything they can, so that Air Canada for example would pass on the gst on fuel for example.
Declan
You really ought to read a law before you get excited about it. Under this system, you have to file amonthly tax return, specifying exactly what you spent, and on what, and with many other very “intrusive” details. MONTHLY. :eek:
OK, let me make things more clear. Who here earns a million dollars a year or more? Who is living below the poverty line? OK- everyone else- you’ll pay more tax. I’ll pay more tax. 90% of the posters on this board will pay more tax. Same as with every “flat tax” system I have seen to date. (Here, I am talking about the “revenue neutral” one, not the ones that assume we’ll cut gov’t spending by 90%… :rolleyes: :dubious: )
You know why? Because the rich will pay a LOT less. The poor will pay about the same (very little). Thus, in order to collect the same amount- all of us in the middle have to pay more. “Dat’s da fact, Jack”. 