Sarah Palin proven right! Government tricks beautiful young mom; imposes 1st Death Panel Verdict

The BBQ Pit
121

Which one of these threads was it where elucidator made fun of the supposed notion that conservatives think that libs want to see kidnergardners fucking?

We’re already to the point where kids of elementary school age giving blowjobs are not that uncommon. I think your proposal would go a long way toward getting us the rest of the way there.

Seriously though, as you suspect I would not agree with your solutions. For the oft stated complaint about liberal solutions, which is that they don’t take into account for human nature. Preadolescent and adolescent children simply lack the discipline and judgement to deal with sexual matters in the way your solution suggests they would. Why do we not simply educate eight-year-olds in automotive safety and let them drive cars? Why do we have crossing guards when we could simply educate kids to look out for cars before they cross the street?

We have crossing guards and don’t allow children to drive because they are too young and immature and impulsive to handle the responsiblity and judgement required to drive cars and cross traffic on their own. So why try to encourage sexual activity in children who are too young to handle it? The overwhelming sexual images in t.v. and movies and music today are constantly working to sexualize kids, as are attempts to educate them about it in school.

WARNING: PERSONAL ANECDOTE FOLLOWS:

When I was nine years old I happend upon a collection of explicit pornography. I showed it to my father, who came home the next day with several books on sex he had checked out of the library for me to read in order to learn how babies were made.

Two days later I was trying to get it on with the little eight-year-old girl down the block. It was only the fact that fifties-era sex books were so vague in detail regarding penetration that not much happened. Still, I had become sexualized by these images and that information, and over the next few years I tried whatever I could get away with, with whoever would allow me to try it.

Now, contrary to what seems to be the general belief around here, I don’t think my own reaction was all that unique. Certainly the other boys and girls I was making privy to this information were as eager and curious as I was, and enough groping and attempts at intercourse were soon going on on my street to make it a rival to life at the Playboy Mansion.

It is my opinion that the very attempts that have already been made to “educate” children about sex in the schoolroom that is in large part responsible for the rate of teen pregnancy and STDs that we have now. When you have adults educating kids about sex and talking about it in mixed company and handing out free condoms and birth control pills, you’re giving them tacit adult approval to engage in sexual behavior, and then given that the lack the maturity and discipline to engage in that behavior responsibly, you’re going to get even higher rates of teen pregnancy and STDs than you have now.

Still, I do sincerely thank you for your attempt to engage me in a constructive conversation about this issue. It’s been my impression in the past that you were only trying to bait me in order to belittle whatever I might suggest, and it appears I was wrong. I hope you’ll accept my apologies for doubting your motives.

122

Suddenly, a great deal about you has been explained.

123

I’m not gonna ask for a cite, you ask for a cite! I don’t wanna know where he gets his information!

124

Well, you see, luci, it was a two-part issue: trickery, and callous government indifference toward a life-threatening situation largely of its own making. I was wrong about the first, but not the last. Shirley one with your self-vaunted intelligence can see this quite easily; therefore I’m left to surmise that you are acting out of devious and borderline dishonest intent, seeking thereby to incorrectly persuade the casual reader that I was wrong on both counts.

But, as with Lobohan and his endless assertions of stupidity and/or moronity on the part of every poster or comment he disagrees with, I’m afraid these tactics have become so familiar that they’ve lost what little impact they ever had in the first place.

Just sayin’ is all…

Still, I gotta admit you are good for a laugh now and then.

125

I think it would do the world good if Rush Limbaugh was fed to sharks off the coast of Costa Rica, but i wonder if that would also be cruelty to animals…

126

Uh, yeah…when was the last time you were in a sex ed class? I don’t remember the teacher giving us condoms or birth control pills in either jr. high or high school, nor were we in mixed company (the girls went to the library, we boys stayed in the classroom). Mostly it was just about reproductive biology and information about STDs, with a big emphasis on HIV prevention. I don’t recall the teacher ever “encouraging” us to do it or ever saying it was “ok” to have sex. When I did it for the first time it was because I thought I was mature enough to deal with the possible consequences and because I thought I loved my girlfriend…my teacher and the sex ed class he taught when I was 15 was the furthest thing from my mind at that time, believe you me.

127

Much of that post was in response to Blalron’s suggestion that we teach kids about sex at an early age and supply them with birth control, abortions, etc.

128

Now you’re wrong again. There was no “callous government indifference”. Your attempts to characterize it thus are out of line with the facts as presented in the article. In fact, nearly every damn thing you’ve stated in this thread has been wrong.

129

Au contraire, my not so frere. She was told that she couldn’t cancel her son’s disability benefits and have her Medicaid coverage reinstated, for the vague reason that it was “too late”. Subsequently the local news media, a state representative, Rush Limbaugh and other lawmakers got into the action and suddenly SS was “making sure” the operation happened. So clearly it was not too late…provided that sufficient political pressure is brought to bear, that is.

So as you can see, it is you whose post has been wrong about damn near everything you said.

Now having said that, I can just imagine the shit fit Obama and Pelosi are likely having over this situation. Here they’ve been trying and trying to assure people that shit like this won’t happen, and the ink is hardly dry on their new bill before the way government really deals with people confronted by serious health care issues gets splashed all over the news.

I’d hate to be the lackey who blew her off. Maybe Obama can trade a nuke to Putin or something and get him or her shipped off to Siberia. :stuck_out_tongue:

130

Well, first off, of course, your original accusation was barking mad. Now you’re a queen and a rook down, you’re offering a draw. Get real.

The article clearly states that she heard about this last week. So we don’t have an episode here where she placed phone call after phone call, letters and memos passed and obstinate refusal etc. About a week before the whole thing was cleared up. No treatments were witheld, the surgery will proceed as planned, so basically nothing happened.

Then you try to tell us that reports of insurance companies doing this kinds of stuff with actually fatal results, those stories are wildly exaggerated. For which you offer zero evidence beyond your firm assertion that it is so.

But this story…this *one *story!..clearly shows the dismal future we face under Marxist medicine, for which you offer precisely the same evidence. Which is to say zero, zip, zilch, nada damned thing.

131

Virtually every line you just wrote is in error in one way or another. So allow me if you will to “get real” about what you just said:

I didn’t say she placed phone call after phone call, letters and memos passed and obstinate refusal etc. I said she had been told she couldn’t have her son’s disability payments rescinded and her Medicaid coverage reinstated, that it was “too late”. Both of these assertions are true.

Yeah, thanks to the local news media, local politicians and Rush Liimbaugh. Is it your position that every applicant for government health care should reasonably expect such hoop-jumping in their case, or wouldn’t it be better to have government functioning in such a way that it isn’t necessary to have news reporters and talk show hosts carrying the ball on your behalf in order to get the government to correct its mistake? (Assuming it even feels it made a mistake; my guess is that her situation is pretty much S.O.P. for the government where there are no political repercussions to deal with.)

Nope. I never said they were wildly exaggerated. I said that they may well have been true but that as a percentage of overall claims filed they may be far from typical or standard operating practice. I then bolstered that view by posing the question as to why, if insurance companies so routinely denied coverage, so many doctors and hospitals deny treatment to patients without insurance.

Again, nope. I made no such firm assertion, I merely made the suggestion and then posed the question, like I just described. Again, there was no “firm assertion”.

Nope, never said or alluded to any particular number of instances, and I made no allusions to Marxism or Marxist medicine…unless you want to accede to our government being Marxist, that is, for it was our government (and by that very name, btw) whose actions I was criticizing.

Yawn…uh, huh? Oh, yeah, we were discussing things I never said. Sorry, it’s getting kind of monotonous…

Anyway, given that I never made the statement you claim I made, it somewhat reasonably follows that I’d offer no evidence for it. Yes, no?

And so you see, luce, that entire post was constructed out of nothing but your imagination. When come back, bring “real”.

132

Bureaucracy. “Rules is rules.” Left hand, right hand, you know the rest.

But this and the drone that *did *“give a shit” are not necessarily the same person.

133

The above is weapons-grade stupid.

My elderly mother got a call last year to inform her that she wasn’t getting everything she could. IIRC, it involved my deceased father’s benefits. We were glad to hear about it, but before accepting it, we tried to make DAMN sure that receiving this would not adversely affect her other benefits. It didn’t.

When a benefit is allocated by income, and income increases, how can you not see where the benefit might change? This is simply not understanding cause-and-effect, and not thinking thru how a change in one area might affect a change in another. It’s unfortunate, but under Medicaid, financial standards are set, and if they are exceeded, there is a change. Under UCH, which we don’t have and aren’t slated to ever get, this would NOT BE AN ISSUE.

Look, I got all the sympathy in the world for this woman, and that’s not crocodile tears. It’s a fucking shame, but that’s what HCR-proponents want to avoid happening to a lot more people. The Dems had to fight for a YEAR to pass essentially the 1993 Republican HCR. How were they gonna pass anything more progressive that that? And that’s what is needed to fix what is wrong. I CANNOT understand how ppl have such a hard-on for for-profit corps whose employees have incentives to avoid paying out, and yet fear anonymous gov’t paper-shufflers whose only priority is to properly clear allocated work.

I’ve decided that, by now, ppl are talking past each other. I propose that we just spit on our hands, start pulling on the rope, and see who ends up in the muddy hole in the middle when we’re done. Just get to work making whatever you believe happen, because talking about it has long since reached about nil return. I’m tired of taking time out of my life to read articles and messages containing distortions, lies, and wharrgarbl to see if a cogent, distortion-free, fact-filled argument can be made that opposes the health-care overhaul I believe is needed. I’ve done it for a year, and it’s wholly been a waste of time, except to further confirm what I believe. The wharrgarbl almost has me to the point where I’m going to stop reading what the opposition has to say, and because of that, if they ever have anything of substance to say in the future, I might not know about it.

If a group of ppl spend a year spouting bullshit, don’t be surprised if ppl write them off as bullshitters. It’s to the point where I feel I have to respond to and encourage every sensible conservative-leaning message I read. Sadly, I don’t have to do that often.

134

It reminds me of the old saying: “Stupid is as Starving Artist.”

This needs to be boiled down to t-shirt length and passed around to everyone in public office. High Broderism is a dead cold killer. Let’s stop trying to find half measures to please everyone and actually try some stuff and then actually evaluate the outcomes. This is particularly the case for the current weak-knees in Congress. They looked at the response of the electorate in 2008 and said, “Oooh, you know, we better tread lightly and try to find compromising positions with the Republicans.”

Look, Democrats, the Republicans are going to attack you and smear you with pantloads of crazy, like the OP. Either fall on your knees, or come out swinging, do what is right, and see what happens.

135

There is not much to add than just as a disinterested observer, Starving Artist really is a utter moron.

136

It’s fascinating to track the rhetoric of the right over the last few decades.

During the Reagan era, when middle-income blue-collar guys thought they would eventually be rich enough to benefit from things like capital gains tax cuts, the enemy was people who couldn’t stand on their own feet, and the bleeding-heart liberals who wanted to help them. Lip service was paid to the ‘truly needy’, but more emphasis was placed on the people who were living off of our tax dollars, instead of relying on private charity and the like. No self-described conservative would have proclaimed himself a “starving” anything.

Years later, now that that “trickly-downy thing” hasn’t worked out like Reagan promised, and the ranks of the needy include a lot of disillusioned former Reagan fans, the enemy is a government that doesn’t provide *enough *benefits to poor people. But convervatives have miraculously managed to still complain that the problem is “the government”. Medicaid patients have always been denied health care that the better-off could afford. But they’re now victims of insidious “death panels”, which apparently didn’t exist until St. Sara christened them.

It’s always been tough to be poor, but it must be even more painful for someone who once dreamed of getting rich.

137

Offered without comment:

138

I hereby resolve to incorporate this word into my vocabulary immediately. So many uses…

139

Maybe, but at least they’ll feel no pain afterward.

140

I second the awesomeness that is this word, and move that it be entered into the Straight Dope lexicon immediately, if not sooner.