Satanism.......

Great Debates
1

Sooo… I’m kinda curious. Inspired by cadolphins thread about religion (if you haven’t read it, you should) I wanted to talk to fellow Dopers about Satanism. But rather than just put up an “Ask the Satanist” thread, I wanted to open up something for free back and forth discussion from everyone. I hope we all learn something from it.

So fellow satanists, come forth and let’s have an open discussion.

Everyone welcome in.

I wanna know what everyone thinks, knows or think they know about the subject.

Please, questions and bits of info are all wonderful. I think this could be a great thread.

Just be civil about it!

Or I’ll eat your face! It will hurt!

2

Perhaps you could start with clearing up some of the most common missconceptions about satanism? I watched a program on the telly about it a while back, where they interviewed a young couple who were satanists. She was a pre-school teacher, and I forget what it was he did. If I grasped their explaination correctly it “satany” bit boiled down to not feeling a moral perogative to help others (as in, you can if you want to, but shouldn’t feel pressured that you have to), and that one was only responsible for ones own happiness, even at the expense of other peoples (the justification being that they too were responsible for their own happiness). Is that in line with the “usual” satanistic beliefs?

3

Are you talking Anton LaVeys Church of Satan Satanism, or some other denomination (if you will)?

4

Satanism does cover several wildly varying belief systems.

I mean, for a start, do you believe in Satan? A surprising number of them don’t, despite claiming the name.

Do you follow in Crowley’s footsteps or just make your own rules as you go?

As far as I can tell, the most common traits of Satanism’s various flavours are attempts to engage in guilt-free selfishness and/or hedonism.
The other common factor is a desire for power/control, usually from people who would otherwise feel powerless or out of control - teenagers, often - the fundemental idea of ‘If they’re not going to love me, let them fear me.’

So which flavour are you?

5

That looks a little hard to read…let’s try again:

Do you mean Anton LaVeys “Church of Satan” brand of Satanism, or some other denomination?

6

To get this started a little more, I’ll repost some of what I wrote in cadolphins thread.

Many people really have no idea what satanism really is, as it’s such a taboo thing to talk about. However, over the past couple of years people have started to accept this (I have many good Christian friends who have never tried to convert me or expressed open concern for my soul) which has made being open about it a lot easier. A lot of us just don’t tell anyone because it’s too much of a hassle to explain it and defend it at least once every 3.7 seconds. I however, believe it is worth defending. So I would love to take the time to share a little bit of info about it.

Satanists either believe that there is no god or devil, or they believe strongly in both and choose to worship neither. We worship ourselves, and our basic philosophy is self betterment. AKA, we are vain.

Pride is not a sin, it’s a virtue. You should be very proud about how good you are at the things you are good at, and never ashamed to share that if it comes up in conversation.

We love our friends almost as much as we love ourselves, and would help them anyway possible. We really don’t care at all about strangers. Why waste some of my love on someone I don’t know, when I can give that much more to the people I do.

Try not to bother or cause harm to anyone. However, the minute someone causes you harm in anyway, you have the divine right to “strike down upon them with great vengeance and furious anger.”

Above comes from the philosophy that we all have a sacred space, our body & mind & emotions (AKA private bubble) which no one has to harm in any way. This is a contract that everyone is born into. Once someone does something like, oh, punch you, they should know that part of their contract (AKA fine print) reads:

“the moment you cause harm to anyone, you have given away the right of your private bubble to said person, and they may use any force they will to protect themselves from further harm, even if it means your life.”

Keep in mind, I don’t know any of us who go stir crazy and knife someone for pinching us on St. Patty’s day, but we also feel we have the right to beat the livin’ beejeezus out of frat boy who punches us, simotaneously refering to us as “Slayer shirt wearing faggot”

Now, some quick verification of some myths about satanism.

We all listen to metal - well, maybe not ALL of us, but a lot of us do. But a lot of christians also listen to gospel music, so nyah.

We all have mullets - false

We all ride goats - false, but I certainly would if they could support my weight. They’re SO DAMN CUTE! Especially the lil pygmy ones!

We eat small fuzzy animals - true. rabbit is mighty tasty in stew.

We play cards with the minions of hell every Tuesday - false. Poker night has now moved to Thursday, because lord Lucifer is taking a pottery class Tuesday nights.

I hope this has helped explain Satanism to everyone. If you have any more questions, I would love to reply.

7

by the ways, cadolphin, this thread was inspired by you, so you gotta post, or the face eating mentioned above shall be plagued upon thee! smile

8

If you don’t believe in Satan, surely you’re not a Satanist, you’ve just hijacked the label?
Like calling yourself a Christian and not believing Christ exists.

Also, you mention divine right, is that just a turn of phrase or a belief in some sort of divinity? (Auto divinity?)

As for pride, it’s a two-edged thing. The Bible tells us not to hide our lights under bushels as well, but there’s a significant difference between hiding a talent and the excesses of pride. Pride also covering things like not backing down, even when you’re wrong. Doing things you know will harm you, but wanting to save face. Turning down charity, even though you really need it. Etc.
Like most emotions, pride can be good or bad. Even love can be bad if it runs out of control or is sufficiently twisted.

9

MetalDog:

LaVeys stance on the Satanism label was that his philosophy was the antithesis of the Christian philosophy, so what better symbol for the Church than the Great Adversary (IIRC).

Initially, in the Satanic Bible, he makes the statement that there are no divine beings other than the self. But, toward the back of the book he goes on a whole witchcraft spree, invoking all sorts of supernatural powers. In my mind, that undermined the entire thing.

10

Just so’s you know, Anton LeVay was a charlatan and a performer - and not a Satanist, even by his own definition.

If you need a cite, here’s one: http://www.churchofsatan.org/aslv.html

If you want to know why I think I have a valid opinion here, you should know that he was my cousin.

11

Well, yes.
Using phrases like ‘Religion’, ‘Church’ and ‘Bible’ in what is on the surface of it more of a philosophy already sends out some very mixed messages.

With LaVey, I always got the impression he was trying to have his cake and eat it. He seems to want to be rid of all the stigma that comes with worshipping Satan without losing any of the ‘benefits’ should the dark lord in fact exist =)

12

As Calvin (of Calvin and Hobbes) once said “Infamy is not as good as fame, but it’s heaps better than obscurity!”

As an angst-ridden teen, I read his stuff very seriously. I came away from it with the impression he was looking for the admiration of angst-ridden teens.

There were a few things he said that I believe are truisms, like “When you are in anothers lair, show him respect” and such. I think his words were chosen to appeal to the angry 16-year-old boy, but it’s a sentiment I can agree with.

13

Err. I lost the rest of my post.

The point being, I can see how some would find his ‘church’ appealing. As a confused teen, you get some one with some good ideas, who appeals to your sense of angst, and you can overlook some of the more blatant inconsitencies.

14

I would just be very leery of anyone who bases any of their beliefs on LeVay’s “philosophy” (a philosophy he himself did not believe.)

15

Same goes for Mr. Crowley, really.

16

Why, that’s like being the cousin of the DEVIL HIMSELF. I knew there was something about you! :smiley: [sub]Just joshin’.[/sub]

Back to the OP: is there one particular flavor of Satanism nowadays that truly worships ‘the Devil?’

17

If Satan was a seraphim - was he male or female? Could satan have been a she?

18

Phlosphr - there are certainly those who would argue that Satan couldn’t have been anything BUT a female.

19

It would be even easier to read if you used an apostrophe where it belongs:

I notice you don’t use apostrophes in your other posts as well (at least not to indicate possessiveness), although your grasp of written English appears impeccable otherwise. Is this just a personal affectation, or something tied into the whole Satanism thing?

Just curious…

Barry

20

I agree with you MetalDog, from the sounds of it the LaVey Satanism movement is just hedonism.

I understand that some can view Satanism to be the opposit of Christianity, but I don’t think hedonism is the complete opposit of Christianity.

While pride can be a bad thing, it isn’t necessarily that wicked (IMO).