satellites

I’ve been told that there is limited space available now for geosynchronous satellites. You can view current positions of satellites here in real time (pretty cool). My question is in 2 parts:

A. Is the original premise true, that there is little orbital real estate left?

more importantly,

B. Why do geosynchronous satellites not orbit along longitudinal lines? Does it have to do with orbital velocity, or efficiency of communication (more ground positions amongst the population globally can receive info)?

Geostationary satellites can only orbit directly above the equator. The orbital period for that distance, 23,000 miles or thereabouts IIRC, is one day so the sat appears to be stationary in the sky. That’s the only arrangement that works with stationary ground dishes. As for real estate available those things are a long way away. A consumer dish will have a hard time distinguishing between two satellits too close to each other.

FWIW survelance satellites operate at a much lower altitute and often have an orbit that takes them over the poles.

And Welcome to SDMB

B. The Earth rotates on its axis from east to west. Geosynchronos orbits must travel around the Earth in the same direction and with the same period (one day) as the Earth’s rotation.

This is probably a dumb question, but in the event of two satellites being in conflicting orbit (either close enough to interfere with each other’s function, or possibly even risking a collision), are there any sort of orbital traffic laws? Any international agreements? Would a collision cause an international incident with lots of finger pointing, or would it be dismissed as “one of those things”?

And soularrow, welcome aboard.

A complication in the real estate issue is that certain places along the area are quite a bit more valuable than others. The middle of the Pacific or Atlantic is only worthwhile for sea-based uses, so there aren’t many satellites there. OTOH, if you put a satellite on the equator due south of Texas, you can reach the whole continental US, and so there are quite a few birds there.

Pi*r[sup]2[/sup]. If I remember my ol’ Elementary Algebra, that gives us 1,661,060,000 miles of space for which to put satellites in geosynchronous orbit. If each satellite is five meters wide, that allows space for 110,737,333 satellites up there. And this is only using the distance from the surface of the Earth to the geosynch point.

So, basically, we’re not running out of room for satellites.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won’t believe how vastly, hugely, mind bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it is a long way down the road to the chemist, but that’s just peanuts to space. "–Douglas Adams

Geosynchronous orbit is about 26,500 miles in radius, meaning that all the way around, it’s 165,000 miles. Any idea how many communications satellites you can shoot up before 165,000 miles would get too crowded?

The much larger issue is radio interference between satellites, which is regulated by through the FCC’s International Bureau.

[Astro101 Red Pen Mode]UNITS![/A101RPM]

2Pir is the circumference of a circle, which will be in miles. Pi*r[sup]2[/sup] is an area–and area is in miles squared, because the radius is squared!

The circumference of the Geostationary circle is roughly 144,513 miles (2pi*23,000). There are currently over 700 satellites out there. The solar wind and the gravitational attraction of the sun and moon make them drift about some. They are packed tightly enough that if one blows up it will likely take out its’ neighbors. Also, as they get closer together it becomes harder to communicate with individual satellites.
As individual satellites reach the end of their life they are moved out of geosynchronous orbit to make room for their replacements.

As has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, geosync orbits are useful for communications satellites (comsats), but they’re not the only orbits one can put comsats in. Its just easier to do it that way currently. (I’ll explain a bit more in a sec.) There’s actually lots of comsats in geosync orbit which are not being utilized to their full capacity. Nearly anyone can rent time on them (it ain’t cheap, but if you can afford uplink equipment, you can afford to rent the air time), what’s happening is that people are slowly shifting a lot of ground-based communications to comsats because its easier (and faster) to put a bird into orbit than it is to run fiber cross country or cross planet. So like with the dot com explosion, people are rushing to put sats up so that they can sell air time on them because even a broadcast network won’t be able to use up all the bandwidth available on a bird, so the rest of the bandwidth can get rented out to someone else. Helps pay for the initial start up costs.

However, thanks to the advances in computer technology, it is now possible (though not necessarily cheap) to put up a flock of sats which pass the signals to one another and then down to an Earth station (or multiple earth stations). This is how the Iridium sat phones work (yes, they’re back in business). If someone in say, Africa, wants to call someone in Russia using an Iridium phone here’s what happens:

The call from the Iridium phone goes up to the nearest sat, gets handed from sat to sat until it reaches whichever sat happens to be closest to Iridium’s earth station (known in the industry as a “gateway”) from there it hits a landline and is then routed to the number in Russia being called.

If you’re making an Iridium to Iridium call from Africa to Russia, then the call gets bounced around until it hits the sat closest to the other Iridium phone, whereupon it gets sent to that phone.

The system’s not perfect, there’s almost always the possibility of a dropped call, and there’s a bit of a delay (the amount varies depending upon circumstances), but you get used to it and don’t even notice it after a while. Still, I imagine in the future it will be the way most systems are done. Its more flexible than a geosynch system (you can’t get a signal on the north slope of a mountain in Alaska, for example, with a geosynch system), and if a bird goes down, there’s one which can take its place in next to no time (two hours, max).

Finally, a number of years ago someone wrote up an article in Analog describing a method of geosynching a sat to the poles (don’t remember the details, but I know the guy took a patent out on the idea which should just be about ready to expire). This is probably more than anyone wanted to know, but I work in the industry and when I get a chance to babble about it, I usually do so.

Thank you for reminding me. But my point still stands… we’re not going to run out of space any time soon.

I think my earlier point was missed. It’s not enought that the satellites be far enough apart to keep from colliding with each other, they need to have enough separation so that recievers can distinguiush the desired one from the ones next to it. C-band has some tricks like aligning the waveguide phase 90° from the adjacent bird so the reciever can discriminate multiple singnals on the same transponder. There has to be a minimum angular separation so there is far less room than you might think for communication sats.

This link is a nice start to understanding orbital mechanics and other wonderful stuff:

http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/realtime/jtrack/3d/JTrack3d.html

J-Track is a wonderful teacher if you pay attention.

This thread covers some of the problems of physical overcrowding in geosynchronus orbit:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=73929

for Padeye:
Bandwidth, Bandwidth, Bandwidth, Bandwidth… :slight_smile: