Save the USSR! (Time-Travel Hypothetical)

So it turns out that the fall of the Soviet Union really was a tragedy, but not for the reasons Putin suspects.

For reasons of plot it becomes necessary to prevent the collapse of the USSR and luckily you have been been provided with the means to do so. You have been chosen to either personally go back in time or brief another person to do so, during which you will have unrestricted access for a twenty-four hour period to a politician or individual of your choice, they will listen to what you have to say and will act on it to the best of their ability. You can provide verbal information only, no information in any other form (the time machine works a little like that in Terminator, the person goes through naked, though they are also not able to hide something inside their body either) though of course the person you are talking to can write down what you tell them. The volunteer will be automatically recovered at the end of the twenty-four hour period.

Your goal is to prevent the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991 and to maintain it to at least the year 2020, it also has to be at least nominally a Communist state and have continuous existence as the political entity known as the USSR. However it cannot be an unrestricted Capitalist state as seen in Putin’s Russia. Whichever mix of state and private economic policy is up to you.

Also at least Russia itself must remain under Communist control and the Soviet banner, but it is better the more of the USSR you can maintain, or even expand it if possible.

Please no, “I’d let it collapse”, replies, that’s fine but its kind of pointless given the hypothetical.

So who do you choose, and what do you tell them?

(yes, we can all agree Communism is a bad thing, but lets just assume that what is being prevented is significently worse, its just a silly hypothetical so please don’t get bent out of shape)

Do genetic sequences count as verbal information? Can I introduce genetic engineering to improve their wheat yields?

Also, what year are we going back to? I think the best moment to influence long term success or failure was well before 1991, and probably well before the stagnation era set in, for that matter.

Well if you can make the person understand just by talking to them for a twenty-four hour period I don’t see why not, I don’t know enough about genetic engineering etc to say whether that is feasible.

And destination in time is entirely your choice, you can go back to whenever you want and speak to whoever you want, but just one individual for a one day period. :slight_smile:

You have to eliminate Ronald Reagan.

Plus, that would get you on Jodie Foster’s good side, so… win-win!

… or so I’ve heard.

Could you tattoo the book on the reasons how USSR collapsed onto your butt for the pastees to read?

At an admittedly high level of generality, the USSR can be seen as a weird parallel to Saudi Arabia: an opportunistic political oligarchy that seized power by promoting an extremist religion and that paid the bills with what it pulled out of the ground. Its continued survival might thus have followed the Saudi model as well: hire Westerners to run the energy extraction industry, distribute the proceeds widely enough among the ruling structure to discourage an alternative power base from developing, and never give a single inch on dissent.

Either have Stalin not end the New Economic Policy in 1928 or have it brought back in some way after WWII.

[QUOTE=Wikipedia]
The NEP succeeded in creating an economic recovery after the devastation of World War I, the Russian Revolution, and the Russian Civil War. By 1925, in the wake of Lenin’s NEP, a “… major transformation was occurring politically, economically, culturally and spiritually.” Small-scale and light industries were largely in the hands of private entrepreneurs or cooperatives. By 1928, agricultural and industrial production had been restored to the 1913 (pre-World War I) level.
[/QUOTE]

Go back to around 1972 and kill Mikhail Gorbachev.

1953, shoot Khruschev and make sure Beria takes power. Despite being a sociopathic rapist, Beria was apparently the most reformist of Stalin’s would-be successors and might have put on the path to transitioning to something along the Chinese model.

You’re going back naked, not sure what you’re shooting Khruschev with (well, maybe something X-rated :eek:)

:slight_smile:
Assuming we can use our speech to say “immediately forgo any ambitions you have and support this other politician fully”, and actually get the person we’re talking to do so, then you could tell Khruschev to support Beria for President. But I’d go back further and tell Stalin to support Trotsky for Dear Leader, possibly the day before Lenin’s death.

strangle stalin with your bare hands would save millions grief that or have Lenin give the order to kill stalin he wanted to give before he dies

Now heres the question how would the eastern front play out ? did anyone else but stalin have the balls to fight like stalin did ? ie victory at all costs?

We can only speculate on what might have allowed the Soviet Union to survive another thirty years to 2020, but the proximate causes of the fall of the Soviet Union are quite apparent:

[List=*]
[li]The oil crisis of 1979 which engendered diversified production of oil and other energy sources resulted in a decline in global oil prices which reduced hard cash coming into the Soviet Union from exports,[/li][li]The costly invasion of Afghanistan which highlighted the weaknesses of the Soviet military and increased dissent in domestic support for the political leadership,[/li][li]The explosion and resultant radiation release of Chernobyl reactor #4, which undermined international confidence in the Soviet leadership for failing to disclose the incident and the subsequent costly followup, and[/li][li]The liberalization of political control and relations with the Warsaw Pact nations, and in particular the decision to not intervene in the labor unrest in Poland (largely led by the Solidarity movement).[/li][/LIST]

The Soviet Union was always bankrupt and relied heavily on its more productive Warsaw Pact nations and outlying republics for basic perishables and manufactured goods. There is no particular reason that the Soviet Union couldn’t have continued on this path indefinitely, albeit with slowly declining productivity and increased dissent; it was not as if the population had any real say in the governance of the nation, and the Soviet intelligence apparatus was quite good at isolating and punishing political dissent. However, the younger generation of up and coming leaders in the CPSU had been exposed to Western economics and recognized the advantages of modern production and manufacturing methods even if they did not fundamentally accept the ideology behind quasi-free market economics, and the accompanying flow of Western products and entertainments to the families of Soviet politicians probably had as much or more to do with acceptance of liberalization as did the actual economics of the failing Soviet economy.

In fact, circa 1980, almost nobody predicted the collapse of the Soviet Union (except by nuclear conflict) within the foreseeable future, and even the few that did such as Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, didn’t predict it to happen as rapidly and largely peacefully as it did. (Solzhenitsyn was one of the most optimistic prognosticators of Soviet collapse, and even he was estimating a failure around 2000.). The actual collapse happened so quickly that many analysts thought it was a ploy of some kind to divide the Western powers even though such a wide scale deception would be essentially impossible for the Soviet Union to have conducted. The reality was that Gorbechev simply underestimated the impact of the social and economic reforms that he implemented. Reagan happened to be lucky for being in the right place at the right time and being remembers for mouthing some hardline soundbites, but the collapse of the Soviet Union had far more to do with the internal politics and the Soviet economic situation coming out of the 1970s than it did with any threats posed by the US and NATO.

The way to maintain Soviet solvency, such as it was, would be to continue to impose authoritarian governance of the core Soviet republics and critical client states while avoiding costly conflicts. China continued to to this into the 1990s (and is still doing so today) and it has worked well enough for them, although they have certainly pivoted their economy to a export-oriented manufacturing economy which is trying to achieve parity with the United States, Western Europe, Japan, and South Korea in the breadth and quality of products offered. The Soviets were never prepared to do this, probably because they never experienced the failures of the Cultural Revoltion and the Great Leap Forward, but also because they had evolved to a system to prevent powerful leaders from imposing a reformist vision post-Khruschev.

A more interesting question is given the right decisions by the US and NATO powers, how quickly could they have engendered collapse or dramatic reform of the Soviet Union had they not misunderstood Soviet motivations (the protectionism of the Warsaw Pact as a buffer zone against invasion versus the assumption of expansionism, the true weaknesses of the Soviet economy and military, divisiveness within the Soviet and CPSU ranks)? The Soviets certainly built the metaphorical “Iron Curtain” using states essentially annexed after the destruction of WWII and installed puppet leaders beholden to their interests, as well as engaging in foreign insurgency aroudn the globe at levels unseen since the height of the French and British empires, but the Soviet economy had been failing for decades before WWII (arguably since its very inception) and the leadership always divided along personality camps. What would it have taken to forment the kind of liberalization that awaited the arrival of Gorbechev and his younger generation of reform-minded politicicians to initiate the necessary policy shifts that would alter the stance or result in the collapse of the Soviet Union?

Stranger

I actually considered going back and talking to Reagan as an option, as Stranger states the real influence he had over the collapse or otherwise of the USSR is questionable but if he was prepared to use all means of the US and West to co-operate with and stabilise the Soviet Union from the earliest stages of his presidency then perhaps the outcome may be different, especially if he was made aware of the internal factors that led to its collapse?

Thanks for the answers everyone!

This is actually a pretty good approach, given that a lot of folks believe, as I do, that Reagan accelerated Soviet decline with his presidential actions.

But my answer would be to go back to the Khrushchev era and try and convince Nikita to provide more domestic goods for the Soviet people without forcing them into slave labor conditions.

It’s my opinion that the biggest reason for the failure of the Soviet Union was it’s “guns before bread” mindset after World War II. It just went on too long.

The real problem is one inherent to command style economies. There are too many prices which must be set, and set competently, for any organization to manage the conditions which change very rapidly. This is something a free Market can handle because all the decisions are made by folks who have detailed knowledge on 4 or 5 factors that are most important to the current deal. The society as a whole knows more, especially of the mundane, than any panel of experts you could assemble. So without extreme change to the soviet system sustainability is just not possible and if you did make such changes would it still be the USSR?

Wait, Trotsky? Why Trotsky? Bukharin seems like the logical choice, given the way history unfolded.

It’s probably true that central planning (at least, barring advances in computing power and data science which weren’t available to the Soviets) is going to suffer inherent deficiencies for the foreseeable future because of the calculation problem, but it doesn’t follow that you need to abandon planning entirely. Hungary was clearly a communist state but one that made a limited use of prices and the market, and shifting to something like the Hungarian model- especially right after WWII, when much of Soviet industry had already been destroyed and there was a convenient opportunity to rebuild from scratch- might have solved most of their problems.

For that matter, most Russians nowadays think they had it better under communism, so simply warning the Soviets about what the end of communism would bring, might convince people to stay with the status quo, as problematic as it was.

Tell Khrushchev to just fake his side of the arms race, and spend that money smarter. There won’t be a nuclear war until mid 2016 at least - that’s a lot of money for crop improvement.

I kind of agree with this. My number one strategy in this kind of alternate history would be to go back to the mid-1920s and persuade the inner circle of the Communist Party to poison Stalin and choose Bukharin in his place. Having said that, the open question is how that would have effected World War II. Bukharin would have pushed for a slower (albeit less bloody and more sustainable) pace of industrialization, with more reliance on quasi-price mechanisms and more individual initiative. That would probably have produced more sustainable economic growth in the long run, but in the short run would have delayed industrial growth and might have left the Soviets in a weaker position to resist the Germans.