As a child, it was drilled into my head at church that only believers go to heaven. Well, now, my dad is totally gentle and ethical and nice and vegan and atheist. He’d still go to heaven tho, right? You would think…
Sorry… ain’t going to happen. Non believers can’t go to heaven, otherwise why would anyone have to believe? It’s the rules of the game… Why would non-believers even care since they don’t believe there is a heaven anyway! Get over it.
My dad doesn’t care…I do
It’s true! Believers get to go to heaven, whereas the rest of us have to settle for going to… Great Debates!
I guess what I’m saying is he is a much better person than ANY believer I’ve ever met…so it doesn’t make sense that they’re saying bad people can go to heaven, just so long as they believe. That’s pretty stupid, no?
Sounds to me like an excellent reason NOT to believe…
Sounds like the Gandhi dilema I’ve seen bandied about in other threads. How could someone say a man like Gandhi couldn’t go to heaven because he’s not christian (Gandhi obviously had a different theological outlook and probably didn’t care one whit where christians thought he was going once dead).
The offical answer from the Bible is no, your father will not go to heaven. (NOTE: I grabbed the Bible quotes below from something grimpixie wrote in another thread)
Personally I think it’s all bunk. How can anyone who believes in a kind and caring God believe that only those who believe in their specifics will go to heaven? Why would anyone suppose a supreme being is petty enough to take offense at not believing in ‘Him’?
Of course, the Pope hasn’t phoned me asking for my opinion so take it for what it’s worth.
For my money, if heaven exists and your dad is as good as you describe, I’d say he is heaven bound.
(BTW…also from the same post grimpixie wrote in another thread is the notion that those who merely spout crap in Jesus’ name are heaven bound…they won’t.)
Actually, while a certain number of Christians base their concept of salvation heavily on Paul’s letter to the Romans and his “Justifiction by Faith,” Paul actually begins that letter on a somewhat different note.
Romans 2: (NIV)
Now, for those whose theology is anchored solidly in the “Justification by Faith” camp, they interpret these verses a bit differently, but those who believe that God will not condemn a person who has tried to follow Him in their own way–even if they do not recognize that they are following Him–then this passage indicates that God is not going to condemn people for a lack of believing.
Oh, sure. He doesn’t show favoritism, but Jews go first. 
I think this was written while Paul was in his “in-between” period.
so… let me get this straight.
according to romans…
(a) heaven for those who believe in god. (22-4, as quoted above)
(b) eternal life for those who do good. (6-16)
thus, god must have another place… some sort of uber-heaven where he puts the kind and generous non-believers.
easy.
gex
-solver of all theological difficulties.
I don’t think so, gex gex. Jesus uses the terms “Kingdom of God”, “Kingdom of Heaven”, and “eternal/everlasting life” pretty interchangablly. I suppose it is possible the Paul is talking about different places, but since he is getting his phraseology from Jesus I doubt it.
Why, oh why, does this canard continue to proliferate on this board? Christianity is big enough that you can find someone, somewhere, that will say just about anything; however, by far the majority Christian position is that God will save whom He deems worthy of salvation, and that this will definitely include some “non-believers”. The doctrine of the virtuous pagan is not new. It has been around for centuries. For Pete’s sake, early last century (the 20th) the Catholic Church excommunicated someone for continuing to preach that only Catholics would be saved, regardless of the Church’s teaching (which is decidedly different.)
The take on the Bible verses you quoted is that God is a reality, not a doctrine, and that people can be “believers” and come to God through Jesus by attending to that reality — by living good, moral lives and believing in and following truth. This does not mean that (according to Christians) it is not better to be Christian — just that there are other ways to encounter God.
So, if you must slam Christian beliefs (and it seems to be a fine hobby here) at least get them right. It is not true that all non-Christians, and all atheists, must go to Hell. While there are some Christian sects that say this (mostly to scare people into joining, I think) the majority Christian position does not agree with this.
The problem is that the true religion is probably some obscure religion practice by 100 people living deep in the Amazon. So, except for those believers, we’re ALL DOOMED!
When I was young, I used to worry/question these things (and you sound young). As I got older, I started to realize how silly religion is. It didn’t happen overnight and it took several years, but it happened.
If God/heaven exists, then your dad will go there along with all good people from everywhere. If that isn’t true and good people were excluded, then it wouldn’t really be heaven, would it?
WARNING! Continued exposure to non religious types and questioning of religion is a threat to your faith. The next thing you know, you will start to think, and that would be bad, bad…
Yay! Thanks! Now I keep dwelling on the young comment. I think I worry too much. I’m 24. So…yeah.
A common misconception. I can name at least a half-dozen posters on this MB who are thinking, doubting believers and who have already celebrated (or mourned) their fiftieth birthdays. I am quite sure that the number that I can think of without any effort is much smaller than the actual group.
I would suggest that a non-thinking believer who never had doubts would be in at least as much jeopardy of losing her or his faith if s/he encountered a situation about which they had not already thought and doubted.
Um…actually by young I was thinking mid twenties…
Tomndeb - I have met religious people that actually use logic and are able to debate. I agree that they are less likely to suffer a faith-threatening shock and they are much more fun to talk with.