Saying Hot Chick = Being A Misogynist Asshole

[kambuckta]

I’m actually dealing with a ‘similar’ situation at work at this moment. It’s not about denigrating women sexually, but it is very much about how some men seek to dictate the terms of dialogue in an environment that is overwhelmingly female.

Briefly, all the workers at my company telecommute, but the software we use includes the ability to ‘talk’ to each other online. Mostly the conversations are benign, sometimes jokes are cracked, sometimes we whinge mildly about how tedious our jobs are.

But there is ONE fella, a late-middle aged, white, conservative and self-aggrandizing dickhead. A few weeks ago he got into chat, telling all and sundry about his talents as a shooter, how many guns he has, what calibre bullets etc etc. This was just a couple of days after a tragic murder-suicide that was still very much in the news and in folks’ minds.

Now 90%+ of my work colleagues are female. And I know for a fact that a number of them have been victims of domestic violence in the past (some might well be victims at the present time). And I know all his talk unnerved me, and getting feedback from others, many felt the same. So I asked Mr Biggus Gunnus politely to dial it back a bit.

Well, that was not gonna happen. Mr Biggus Gunnus was NOT going to take any such advice from a woman, and it is his God-given right to talk about whatever the fuck he wants to and whenever he wants to. So I asked our Team Leader (a male) to have a bit of a chat to Mr BG, and for the last few weeks, he’d been as quiet as a mouse.

We got a new Team Leader on Monday, a woman. And yesterday had a ‘Getting to Know You’ meeting with all attending. And within 2 minutes of the meeting , Mr BG started ranting and raving about how he is being ‘bullied’ by not being allowed to talk about guns and shooting on chat, how we are all fucking ‘snowflakes’ and how he’s thinking of quitting and suing the company for how unfairly he’s been treated. I could almost feel his bile and spittle coming down the phone line…he was absolutely rabid.

Like, what the fuck? All because our precious middle-aged white male was told that his conversation was not appropriate for our particular workplace? Because he was told to keep his gun stuff to himself AT WORK?

Yeah, it’s all about male-entitlement and seeking to control the communal spaces we all inhabit. By dictating those terms, it privileges those with a dick, and marginalises the experiences and opinions of women.

Anyway, there’s a few formal complaints in the HR inbox today. Will be very interested to see what eventuates.

[begbert2]

Speaking as a guy, calling somebody ‘hot’ can be, and generally is, a compliment.

But calling somebody a ‘chick’ is always an insult (unless you’re talking about an actual juvenile chicken). The term is a diminutive, that quite literally infantilizes its subject. I’m not sure what the origin of the term as slang for ‘woman’ is, but I don’t believe for a moment that it’s complimentary or ever was.

Not that I go around assessing the appearance of women or anything, but I’d say if I was going to do that, I’d be pretty free with ‘hot’ and avoid ‘chick’ like the plague, just because that’s how I understand the language to work.

[j666]

The thing is, the original “hot chick” comment might have gone unremarked in a thread about something less fraught that the confirmation hearings of a potential justice that might tip the balance to over turn Roe v. Wade. It was kind of juvenile and classless, but, whatevs, this is a public message board, after all. Some people like to cause a little stir.

But, when the joke doesn’t go, drop it. Just drop it. Maybe post that grumbling sand kicking emoji that we don’t have here, but when the joke falls flat, drop it!

@octopus

I think she’s hot. I’m not posting pics in the Pit though.

oh, FFS, of course you are not going to post pictures of your wife on a message board.

@SisterCoyote

… a) do I need gaffer tape to keep both the bra and the dress in place throughout the dance and b) does the damn thing have pockets?

Who cares? You can’t dance in a skirt like that anyhow. Unless it’s like a tennis dress, but I doubt it is.

@Kimstu

… it was closed by a moderator on grounds of cruelty to dead horses.

Very nice, very nice indeed.

“deadhorsefeelings”?

@Broomstick

What these guys don’t understand is that some “rando” saying “hot chick” or wolf-whisteling is not that much different than a dog humping your leg. Except a leg-humping dog makes less noise.

Well done

@octopus

What’s wrong with you? Don’t you ever get tired of looking like a hysterical fool or attempting to slay strawpeople?

Not so much.

[j666]

@octopus

Oh goodness. Not nice how? Because I don’t automatically agree with the nuttery on this board? Thankfully, that’s not how niceness is measured in the real world. With regards to not seeing the bigoted language with regards to,gender, race, and age? Perhaps you need your eyes checked if what you are saying is true.

You’re not nice because you insult people and are condescending at your best. You also cheat in arguments.

I take this post to mean that you can’t find an example in this thread of people objectifying another group, and acknowledge that, when it comes to the offensive language, in this case it is all about you?

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@j666

The thing is, the original “hot chick” comment might have gone unremarked in a thread about something less fraught that the confirmation hearings of a potential justice that might tip the balance to over turn Roe v. Wade. It was kind of juvenile and classless, but, whatevs, this is a public message board, after all. Some people like to cause a little stir.

But, when the joke doesn’t go, drop it. Just drop it. Maybe post that grumbling sand kicking emoji that we don’t have here, but when the joke falls flat, drop it!

Yeah, this is the thing. This is the big thing. You’re not being oppressed if you’re discouraged from making what you consider to be an innocuous comment. It’s possible to roll your eyes privately and still stop making the comment. Throwing a giant temper tantrum over it is absurd.

The “hot chick” comment was obnoxious, but even if you think it wasn’t, who the fuck cares?

[Kimstu]

@kambuckta

I’m actually dealing with a ‘similar’ situation at work at this moment. It’s not about denigrating women sexually, but it is very much about how some men seek to dictate the terms of dialogue in an environment that is overwhelmingly female. […]

Yeah, it’s all about male-entitlement and seeking to control the communal spaces we all inhabit.

It’s also (and #NotAllMen of course) about the way that men are socialized to think about conversational dominance and masculinity. Many men feel genuinely threatened if they’re ever told (especially by a woman) that what they’re saying is wrong or inappropriate. Not being allowed to impose their own will and perspective on a conversation comes across to them as a direct challenge to their manhood.
Imagine if someone like me had been equally insistent about my entitlement to make irrelevant comments of my choice in an inappropriate context, without correction or criticism. Suppose it had been me in that Elections thread saying “Did you see the gorgeous part-angora stole that woman was wearing? I had almost got the cabling pattern figured out when they moved her to seat another dignitary, the annoying barstids :p”. And another yarn geek jumped in with “Actually, I think it was mohair rather than angora” or something.

The whole poster population of the thread would probably have been immediately united in telling us to save it for our Rhinebeck meetup and not tie up the politics thread with our yarn talk (hee hee SWIDT). And if a few of us yarn geeks then reacting by whining about overaggressive modding, and demanding to be told what’s wrong with commenting on fiber arts, and playing stupid about what sort of fiber-related statements we were allowed to make, and carried on about it for days over a dozen pages’ worth of two separate threads, our exasperated fellow posters would by now be at the stage of reaching right through their screens and across the internet to club us to death with a ball winder.

[Acsenray]

@begbert2

Speaking as a guy, calling somebody ‘hot’ can be, and generally is, a compliment.

Whether or not it’s a compliment in the mind of the person saying it, in many contexts—pretty much any context where a woman’s physical attractiveness is not directly relevant—it is sexually objectifying, reducing the woman to her sexual characteristics, and tends to undermine her ability to function as an equal member of society.

[HamptonsLax]

the idea that talking about “getting tail” and “hot chicks” is “sexist”/“mysogynistic” is sexual communism; people don’t like the natural order of things so they try to manipulate society into erasing the distinctions between the sexes and economic communism tried with money and class, with capital as the natural order.

[octopus]

@j666

You’re not nice because you insult people and are condescending at your best. You also cheat in arguments.

I take this post to mean that you can’t find an example in this thread of people objectifying another group, and acknowledge that, when it comes to the offensive language, in this case it is all about you?

Cheating in an argument? That’s preposterous. I hope I don’t get a point deduction.

And it’s not my job to post stuff you could see if you took the time to actually read the thread. Lazy.

[Acsenray]

@HamptonsLax

the idea that talking about “getting tail” and “hot chicks” is “sexist”/“mysogynistic” is sexual communism; people don’t like the natural order of things so they try to manipulate society into erasing the distinctions between the sexes and economic communism tried with money and class, with capital as the natural order.

Interesting join date there, Mr. Definitely Not a Sock Puppet/Troll

[Kimstu]

@HamptonsLax

the idea that talking about “getting tail” and “hot chicks” is “sexist”/“mysogynistic” is sexual communism; people don’t like the natural order of things so they try to manipulate society into erasing the distinctions between the sexes and economic communism tried with money and class, with capital as the natural order.

:rolleyes: Considering that the human species survived naturally for hundreds of thousands of years before developing capitalism, your attempted analogy between capitalism and human sexual dimorphism as “the natural order of things” is not very convincing.

In any case, the fundamental and natural “distinctions between the sexes” are not under any threat from modern standards of appropriateness in individual behavior. Refraining from making comments about which chicks you think are hot in circumstances where those comments are irrelevant and/or inappropriate will not make your penis fall off, or do anything else to “erase the distinctions between the sexes”.

Still, your post is a great illustration of what I was just talking about:

@Kimstu

Many men feel genuinely threatened if they’re ever told (especially by a woman) that what they’re saying is wrong or inappropriate. Not being allowed to impose their own will and perspective on a conversation comes across to them as a direct challenge to their manhood.

[SmartAleq]

I read this Twitter thread and by all the gods did it ever make me think of this shitshow. Keep hitting the right arrow, it goes on a ways and there are some really great turns of phrase contained within.

Log into Facebook

[j666]

@HamptonsLax

the idea that talking about “getting tail” and “hot chicks” is “sexist”/“mysogynistic” is sexual communism; people don’t like the natural order of things so they try to manipulate society into erasing the distinctions between the sexes and economic communism tried with money and class, with capital as the natural order.

That doesn’t actually make any sense.

@octopus

Cheating in an argument? That’s preposterous. I hope I don’t get a point deduction.

And it’s not my job to post stuff you could see if you took the time to actually read the thread. Lazy.

See, you did it just then. You attack me instead of addressing the points I raise, and you will next announce that you are too busy to answer any other posts.

[HamptonsLax]

@Kimstu

:rolleyes: Considering that the human species survived naturally for hundreds of thousands of years before developing capitalism, your attempted analogy between capitalism and human sexual dimorphism as “the natural order of things” is not very convincing.

umm capitalism, as in incentive for production, and yes, some people coming out better than others, was around long before Bolshevism.

[begbert2]

@Acsenray

Whether or not it’s a compliment in the mind of the person saying it, in many contexts—pretty much any context where a woman’s physical attractiveness is not directly relevant—it is sexually objectifying, reducing the woman to her sexual characteristics, and tends to undermine her ability to function as an equal member of society.

I personally make it a point never to so much as mention a woman’s appearance under any circumstances - to do so is fraught with peril to the point of basically never being appropriate. (If I was dating a woman there might be certain specific situations where complimenting was appropriate. But I’m not, so there aren’t.)

All that said, “hot” is perilous, but “chick” is goddamned indefensible. I literally cannot think of a situation where the appellation “chick” is not a derogatory term if used to describe a human.

[octopus]

@j666

That doesn’t actually make any sense.

See, you did it just then. You attack me instead of addressing the points I raise, and you will next announce that you are too busy to answer any other posts.

You seriously haven’t seen in this thread old, white male used disparagingly? :dubious:

[octopus]

@begbert2

I personally make it a point never to so much as mention a woman’s appearance under any circumstances - to do so is fraught with peril to the point of basically never being appropriate. (If I was dating a woman there might be certain specific situations where complimenting was appropriate. But I’m not, so there aren’t.)

All that said, “hot” is perilous, but “chick” is goddamned indefensible. I literally cannot think of a situation where the appellation “chick” is not a derogatory term if used to describe a human.

There are millions of people who disagree.

[begbert2]

@octopus

There are millions of people who disagree.

Sure, but they’re worthless shitheads.

[Ambivalid]

@octopus

You seriously haven’t seen in this thread old, white male used disparagingly? :dubious:

Yes. But to be fair there’s been no shortage of “old, white male behaving disparagingly” in this thread either.

[octopus]

@begbert2

Sure, but they’re worthless shitheads.

Lol. Good luck with your crusade.