This type of question inevitably ends up looking like a poll, but I have factual intent, so here we are in GQ.
Here in Ohio, when referring to a highway or other numbered route, we say only the number if it has no other name- for instance in Dayton, people drive on “75” or “35” or whatever. But elsewhere people say “the” before the number. My sister moved to the Phoenix area and she told me she’d get funny looks if she didn’t go along with everyone and say “the 10” or “the 202,” etc. What are the geographical extents in the U.S. of the two ways of saying the route numbers? Is it a Western thing to include “the”? How about other countries?
Always “the M25” etc. in the UK. This also applies to some named roads, too: “the Old Kent Road”, “the Norwich Road”. However, which named roads this applies to seems basically random, and is just a part of local knowledge.
It’s common in southern California. However, I have lived in the San Diego area off and on for 20 years and I don’t really recall hearing it until my parents moved to the outskirts of LA (Irvine) about 7 years ago. It has definitely migrated down here, though.
Around San Francisco, “the” is generally left off the names when spoken. But in So Cal, everyone uses “the” (the freaks).
I’ve actually noticed myself referring to the roads in So Cal with “the” and the ones up here without. If I’m heading to LA, I’ll take the 101, but if I’m heading to Redwood City or San Jose, I’m on 101.
I’ve posted about this in another thread within the last day or so. Going to hospital is also used in Australia and New Zealand, and I think pretty much all Commonwealth countries. Just remember that it applies only to patients. Medical staff and visitors still go to the hospital. It’s a useful distinction.
As for the OP, here in Australia it’s confusing. I didn’t realise just how confusing until I found myself erasing much of this post and starting again.
Bus, train, and tram routes always have “the” in front of them. Flight numbers do not.
Roads are really tricky. The Pacific Highway is also plain ol’ Highway One. Most major highways tend to be known by their full names (with a “the”) much moreso than in the US. The route numbers here are more of an official thing, and not used by the average Joe. The motorways in Sydney are numbered, and we use “the” for those, because unlike “The Pacific Highay/Highway One” these roads only have numbers, so they are used as a name - the M5, the F3…
Also, what GorillaMan said about UK roads applies here in that some named roads keep “the”, but it’s rare, and there is no rule other than local knowledge. We have the romantically named The Bells Line of Road. Interestingly, this practice seems to have been much more common in the nineteenth century, and looking at old maps of Sydney, I’ll see “the” on roads that don’t have it now. This tends to apply to those roads named after their destination: eg. The Parramatta Road (1880) vs Parramatta Road (2004).
in the Lower NY/Upper NJ/Western CT area I’ve never heard the use of the word ‘the’ in front of rte numbers. I never heard it when I lived upstate in NY either.
In the Philly region, roads that have names are usually referred to with “the”, while route numbers aren’t. E.g.:
“Philly doesn’t really have a beltway, but if you take the Schuylkill over to the Vine Street Expressway, then get on I-95 south, then take the Blue Route north, you’ve done about the same thing. You could take 202 down to Route 1 for the west side of the loop, but that’s not all limited access.”
Using “the” before named or numbered roads is uncommon onthe East Coast, in my experience, but there will always be idiosyncratic exceptions for named roads.
The Boston Post Road, for example, ran from Boston to NYC in an era when long distance roads were few and far between (as opposed to local roads, paths or streets). It survives today, and is still called Boston Post Road in scattered stretches though much of it is now state (or US?) highway (e.g. Mass Route 20).
On a street address, it is simply “Boston Post Road.” In a historical of sociological context, it is always THE Boston Post Road. In casual conversation, either may be used, with “the” being used more by long-term locals who attended local public schools, where its historic role was emphasized. Oddly, I’ve noticed that even the locals tend to use the “the” more often when they are giving directions southbound (toward NYC) than when they are giving directions Northbound. [This may vary. Most of my experience with locals giving directions using the road’s aname is north of Boston, where it retains its name in several stretches (as opposed to western MA, where many “Boston Post Roads” are just borrowing the historical-sounding name, while the real BPR route is buried under Mass Route 20.)
“The Mass Pike” (I-90 in Massachusetts) always takes the “the.” You can drop the “Mass,” but never say it in full: “the Massachusetts Pike.” The state seems to have a complex about it’s long name: You can call the T “the MBTA” but saying Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority will temprarily befuddle many locals, The state’s many roads named “Massachusetts Avenue” are, similarly, *almost/i] (but not quite) always called “Mass Ave” (two syllables). Intermediate short forms like “Massachusetts Ave” or “Mass Avenue” will mark you as a visitor or newcomer.
“The Mass Ave” is occassionally heard from old folks, but only for the stretch in Boston, Cambridge and Arlington, not for “Mass Aves” in other towns.
One example which has come to mind is the central London thoroughfare, Strand. It’s so commonly called The Strand that it comes as a surprise to people when you point out that that’s just a colloquialism.
In upstate New York, “the” seems to be used only in two specific cases – where a road is in some way unique, and where the name is a particular modifier, as opposed to a specific name. In the first case, “the 401” is the main expressway from Cornwall to Kingston (and on west) and “the Thruway” is the short form for “the New York State Thruway,” the statewide toll highway that constitutes most of I-90 and half of I-87 in New York.
In the second case, West Main Street (without the “the”) becomes “the Cape Vincent road” as it leaves Watertown – that being a descriptive term to indicate its destination, not a formal highway name. But Tylerville Road, so named, does not take the “the.” Pillar Point, a peninsula jutting into Lake Ontario and lined with cottages, has three main modes of access: the North Shore Road, the South Shore Road, and Middle Road. Note the “the” used with the first two as describers; one will rarely hear “the Middle Road,” which is normally taken as an arbitrary name rather than a describer. And “Moffett Road,” which connects the three halfway down the length of the peninsula, never takes the “the.”
On the other hand, two parallel rural roads connect NY Route 12E and NY Route 3 just west of Watertown. One is the surviving length of a former road connecting Brownville and Rome, and is “the Old Rome State Road” while the other is a much newer road (built sometime between 1920 and 1950) named “Floral Drive.” The article is not part of the name for “Old Rome State Road” but you will rarely hear anyone reference it without a preceding “the.”
I don’t recall anyone in North Carolina using a “the” except in the first circumstance noted above. I-95 is “Ninety Five” and US 1 is “U.S. One” with no designators; Raleigh and small town streets are their names without an article. But “the Beltline” is I-440 – being up until recently the sole circumferential expressway, and therefore taking the article as a symbol of uniqueness.
Something I do hear occasionally though not often around here, which was never my experience up north, is a road number preceding the designator – “98 Highway” where “Highway 98” would be the norm in New York (and the usual but not exclusive norm in N.C. as well). Is that at all common elsewhere?
Around here, “the” is only used with named highways.
Interstate 90, the only freeway that goes through Spokane, is “the freeway” or “I-90”, but I’ve never heard just “90”, and I’d never consider saying “the 90”.
US 195 is “195” or “the Pullman Highway”, but I haven’t heard just “Pullman Highway”. US 2 is “Highway 2” or “[the] Sunset Highway” - “the” is optional because part of US 2 is the main street of a town, and Sunset Highway is the actual street name. “The 195” and “the 2” are unheard of.
Living on the US/Canadian border is wierd. Everything on our side is I-94 or simply I-94; I-75 or simply 75; I-696, 696, or “the Reuther.” Everything on the other side is “the 403” or “the Q.E.W.” – yeah, even on this side of the river, I’m so indoctrinated to the other side that I don’t even thing twice about the mode change.
Hmm… my I-696 example led me astray – we do say things such as “the Ford” (I-94); “the Chrysler” (I-75); “the Lodge” (M10, I think, or maybe I-96, that’s why I hate names and count on the route number); and of course “the Reuther” (I-696).
Now to set aside doubt, SE Michiganders, what the hell are I-96, I-69, M10, and M5 called? And keep in mind that M5 isn’t always Grand River.
I noticed the “The” convention when I moved to Los Angeles. It’s easy to fall into.
Here in KC, it’s odd. 435 or 35 (interstates) but I-70. There’s also 40 Highway, which in St Louis is Highway 40. Or maybe that’s the other way around.
I’ve lived in the Los Angeles area since I was four years old and it was only recently that I learned that not everyone uses “the” in front of freeway numbers. :smack: Most of the people I mention it to, native SoCal people or not, have to stop and think about it, and then they go “Oh yeah …”
– Dragonblink, currently a literal stone’s throw from The 405
Yep. Funny, a bunch of us Nor Cal folks were discussing this the other day. “Did you ever notice how you can tell someone is from So Cal if they say ‘the 101’ instead of just ‘101’?”