Of course it “means” “good-bye,” but what does it literally mean? The translation “if so it must be” was the way Sir Laurens van der Post rendered it in his story *“A Bar of Shadow.” How close is that?
*Upon which the David Bowie movie Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence was based.
I wouldn’t have been able to come up with “If so it must be” on my own, but having it offered as a possibility, it certainly makes grammatical sense. “Sayo” is an older form of “Sou” (literally “that way,” made famous by the Japanese phrase every American knows, “Ah sou”…“Oh, is that how it is?”). This form is still used in polite speech. “Nara” means something like “if the situation is that…” (a rotten translation, but you get the idea).
No what I want to know (as I’m sure this thread will attract other Japanese speakers) is: what does “arigato” really mean? I read one interpretation that said “this difficult thing,” the idea being that now that someone had done something for you, you were obligated to repay the kindness. This ties into the other way of saying thank you, “sumimasen,” “it does not end,” meaning (supposedly) that the cycle of paybacks between yourself and the person to whom you are indebted will never end.
Is this right? “Sumimasen” makes sense, but the explanation for “arigato” always sounded yayakoshii to me.
“If it must be so” (interesting that English so and Japanese sô are pronounced the same and share the same meaning) — it’s like saying that it’s sad we must part now, but it can’t be helped, so I guess this is “goodbye”. Muss es sein? Es muss sein!. (‘Must it be? It must be!’ — this was the theme of a Beethoven piano sonata.)
I can’t find my dictionary (cursed Spring Cleaning!), but I had thought that the adjective arigatai meant something like “auspicious” or “praiseworthy.” arigatou gozaimasu is one of those nice archaic honorific structures for adjectives (see also ohayou gozaimasu from hayai (early)). So, I thought that *arigatou * just was a polite way of saying that someone else had done something nice, literally, “It’s nice!”
Any other opinions?
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*Originally posted by AkashJ *
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[QUOTE
I can’t find my dictionary (cursed Spring Cleaning!), but I had thought that the adjective arigatai meant something like “auspicious” or “praiseworthy.” arigatou gozaimasu is one of those nice archaic honorific structures for adjectives (see also ohayou gozaimasu from hayai (early)). So, I thought that *arigatou * just was a polite way of saying that someone else had done something nice, literally, “It’s nice!”**[/QUOTE]
That sounds like a possibility…but don’t forget that “arigatou” is written “have” (or “exist,” or “this,” if you like), “difficult.” So literally (assuming that these are not ateji and actually mean what they say) it means “this difficulty” or “this hardness.”
As for “arigatai,” I know the meaning you speak of, but I initially heard it as a sarcastic remark, like, “I sure appreciate that” when you actually wish the person hadn’t done what they did. From this I always assumed it meant something like “want to thank,” or “should want to thank.” As a result, I have always had trouble wrapping my head around the meaning you present above.
Oh, this difficult thing.
I have always thought of “omedetai” in the same way (like “this is something worth congratulating!”). I’m probably wrong about those two, though.
Just a little nitpick: “sayonara” does not actually contain the concept of “must be.” All it actually says is “if it is so.” Whether there is a “must” flavor to its usage or not, I do not know.