Slight hijack, but Mrs. SMV and I did. We were on a Lutheran church tour of places relevant to, well, Martin Luther, thus visited some cities that I suspect are off the beaten track for most American tourists: Eisenach, Torgau, Erfurt, Leipzig. As well as the more touristy ones: Berlin, Rotenburg ob der Tauber (beautiful), Neuschwanstein. (No, we’re not Lutherans, but my father-in-law is, and he picked up the tab; I’ll never turn down a trip to Europe, even at the cost of spending a week in a bus full of Lutherans who sang songs about Martin Luther and wore their tour ID tags all the time.)
We had a great time, and partly because the trip was Luther-oriented; I probably would never have deliberately decided to visit Leipzig or Torgau, but I’m glad I did. And we saw the Passion Play at Oberammergau, which the inhabitants of the village have been staging every ten years since 1634. I kept my religious convictions to myself and simply enjoyed the spectacle and the tradition.
This was also the trip during which we went to a café in Leipzig to watch the German team in a World Cup semifinal. I decided that watching a semifinal of the biggest sporting event on Earth, in a café full of passionate and interested German fans, in the heartland of European soccer, and wishing I had thought to bring a book, demonstrated conclusively that soccer bores the shit out of me. I can skip all future World Cups* without guilt, because I gave the Beautiful Game a damn good shot.
*Yes, even the ones with the American teams. Congratulations, Abby Wambach & crew, but I didn’t watch a single one of your games.
We did the Adventures by Disney tour of the Romantic Road. It was awesome. I’ve now been to Germany as a tourist twice and I’ve never been to Berlin. Munich, Trier, Rotenburg ob der Tauber, Heidelberg. But never East far enough to go to Berlin.
I like mountains, so spending time in Bavaria is really cool. And I don’t drink beer.
The Museum of Contemporary German History (basically, the history of East Germany) in Leipzig was fantastic. Leipzig is where the protests began that ultimately led to the fall of the Berlin Wall. The museum had me in tears.
“Nothing new under the sun” – I recall a Reader’s Digest article some 55 years ago, titled “Sweden; Paradise with Problems”: expressing perturbation about – amongst all the “good stuff” there – high rates of suicide / mental illness / alcoholism, widespread cynicism and despair, marital and sexual problems in abundance, and much ugly conduct on the part of unruly young folk.
IMO talented spouters-of-words can make a seemingly convincing case for almost any position which can possibly taken on any subject. One can imagine a “through-the-looking-glass” version of Michael Booth – or even Michael Booth himself, choosing to wear a different journalistic hat – writing persuasively about the upsides to life in such places as Haiti / Somalia / Central African Republic / Zimbabwe / Belarus / Turkmenistan / North Korea.
Well, given how we fight ignorance, I guess there had to be a paper somewhere that promoted & spread ignorance. Friends, I give you… The New York Post. If you tried to wrap fish in it, the poisons would leech out of it and spoil the meat.
Can’t we leave Bristol Palin outta this?
Same. Feudalism in America is becoming pretty damned depressing.
Aww, C’mon. So some guy with a head shaped like an egg found a way to pay for and write off on his taxes Huge Extended family trips to every vacation spot on earth disguised as films. Except for Scandinavia. Does that make him a bad person?
[Sandler]“Nick! I got another movie lined up. Sure you can bring your family; everybody always does. No, you don’t get to kiss Aniston. Can you still do that really bad stereotypical German accent? The one where you say “Yah” every third word? Great!
Just one more thing. Nick, you’re going to have to boink a pig. No, its Not like that time with the Sigma Alpha girl. And you owe me re: her anyway; you know she still sends cards asking about you? YES, I told her… Guam… I told her.
Anyway, its a real pig. Don’t worry, you’ll get a condom. Yes, we’ll test for diseases; the farmer insisted. We’ll start filming in April. Scandinavia 2016! Talk it up, bro! Gotta go, Kevin James is on the other line…” [/Sandler]
I’m guessing significant alcohol has to be involved; otherwise the pig would say no.
Wait, maybe I misunderstood the purpose of this discussion. Are points being handed out among you Americans in debates about healthcare (or whatever) based on whether one side or the other can demonstrate that Scandinavia is, or isn’t, a perfect utopia?
Then, sorry: Scandinavia is not a perfect utopia. Shocker, I guess. Apologies if that was the standard you were holding us to, for some bizarre reason. As I said. we’re only human over here. And we’re really not very exotic, recreational pig-bonking notwithstanding.
Frankly, I didn’t know that we were so interesting to you guys. On behalf on Scandinavians everywhere, I’m not sure whether I should feel flattered or vaguely creeped out.
Martian Bigfoot: Everyone knows that Scandinavia is not a ‘perfect utopia’. That’s not the point or purpose. The point is that we liberals see much room for improvement in the United States. For years we’ve been pointing to Northern Europe as an example of how social democracies (OMG! SOCIALISM! :eek: ) works. Very recently, ISTM, we’ve been hearing about how high Scandinavian countries score on the Happiness Chart. The idea that OMG! SOCIALIST :eek: countries tend to have happy citizens bolstered what we’ve been saying all along.
So along comes Kyle Smith, who sticks a pin in our balloon. ‘You think OMG! SOCIALISM! :eek: is so great?’ he asks, 'In reality they’re all a bunch of alcoholic, suicidal, animal humpers! Id that what you want to turn America into? :mad: ’
So is it as bad as all that? Would you rather have low taxes and pay for your own damned healthcare out of your own damned pay check? Do you really want everyone to have access to education? Wouldn’t it be better if you had a small number of rich people and hoards of poor people, with everyone else just one major expense away from bankruptcy? Or, all things considered and understanding that no place is a Utopia, are you pretty happy with your lives?
No. Are you nuts? Why is that even a question? I mean, who does? Oh, right, Americans. You guys are weird sometimes, you know that?
Yes. See the above answer for details.
Ooh, that’s a tricky one. Let’s see… no.
Yes, I suppose so.
That said, just because my contrarian impulse is twitching: As individuals, maybe many of us are happier, more comfortable and more secure than many of you guys. But as a nation, you seem to be winning. I certainly haven’t seen anything interesting in the realms of technology or culture come out of here recently (much), while we seem to be eating up what you guys are producing like it’s crack. So, there’s that.
The thing is, though, (and I’m addressing the OP’s link here, more than you) I don’t see how demonstrating how Scandinavians are prone to any of these somehow negates the benefits of affordable healthcare or access to education. Correlation is not causation. As I have perhaps tentatively demonstrated, it is my contention that these problems / pastimes / ideas for comedy movie scripts have to do with the Scandinavian soul, rather than the more superficial realm of politics. If you guys want to discuss healthcare and education, discuss healthcare and education.
Many Americans are weird – and not in a good way. For people like Trump, Bush, Cruz, et al., correlation is causation. The conservative base are not deep thinkers. To be sure, there are many conservatives who understand the issues and disagree on solutions; but the masses trend otherwise. These are the people who want to build a wall between the U.S. and Mexico, expel Muslims, and deny social benefits to The Other while collecting those benefits themselves.
The point of Smith’s article is that OMG! SOCIALISM! :eek: is bad, m’kay? It’s bad because Socialists are depressed alcoholic animal-boffing suicide cases. They do not understand that Socialism the ideology (they always trot out the Wikipedia definition of Socialism) and social democracy as practiced in the real world are two different things. So the point of this thread is to support or refute Smith’s claim that socially democratic systems of government are bad, because they make people do bad things and make everyone bland conformists. (Because apparently, you can be twisted and depressed – bestiality, suicide, alcoholism – and really boring and content at the same time.)
Yeah, I guess that is what complicates the issue. Scandinavians are twisted, depressed, zoophilic, suicidal, alcoholic, boring, conformist, content and happy.
Just to address this particular point, since the OP’s article seems to be a bit confused on the subject: We have no shortage of people over here willing to get behind this idea. The thing is, though, they overwhelmingly lean right rather than left politically. The linked article seems to want to wrap this tendency up with “OMG socialism”:
Which is not how it works, really. A Scandinavian xenophobe is (unsurprisingly) right-wing, not left-wing. So, when describing an “OMG socialist” Scandinavian, you’ll have to squeeze in “open minded, inclusive and tolerant” somewhere between “boring” and “conformist”.
'Cause I really do think that we are twisted, depressed, zoophilic, suicidal, alcoholic, boring, [open minded, inclusive and tolerant, except for when we’re being xenophobic,] conformist, content and happy.
