Fuck fuck fuck.
This is not a good thread to read after just having read this one.
Is the USA looming ominously from the outside to you folks who live elsewhere? Am I being a partisan nut if I conflate the antics of Bush & Co. with ascensions to power on the order of Darth Vader and that German fellow with the silly moustache, or am I watching from inside as the US makes its move to implement a global fucking empire?
And if it is…is there something you would do if you were a US citizen? I feel guilty and dirty already.
“The more you tighten your grip, the more [countries] will slip through your fingers…”
That’ll render the most essential James Bond plot device (i.e., the orbiting space station ready to blast Fort Knox, New York, London, etc.) completely useless. Damn, no more Bond girls. Another thing to hate about the Bush administration.
Here’s my take on it: The number one job of government is to defend its citizens from all enemies. I don’t know shit about the proper way to defend a country. If the people who do know shit about defending the country think that this is the best way to do so, then they should go for it. I will assume that they have considered all of the arguments I can think of against doing this and decided that it’s still the best course of action.
Two points: there’s more than one way to skin a cat; administrations can make mistakes.
Your assumption is that the current administration is driven by thoughtful expertise and diplomacy, rather than some zealous ideology that could make things a whole lot worse. Read this, and then see if you make the same assumptions.
Ok, so at anytime, the US might not allow other countries to use our satellites at some point in the future. So?
If they (other countries) want intelligence, they can send up their own satellites.
Since when do your friends get to use your telescope whenever they want?
plnnr does that involve a laser?
It was a joke. Not a very good one, but still a joke.
For those that need it:
joke \jok\ n: something said or done to provoke laughter; esp: a brief narrative with a humorous climax
Bruce_Daddy, there’s quid pro quo in intelligence gathering - the US relies on a lot of allies to provide (e.g. the US listening stations in the UK are a key element to the son-of Star Wars early warning system).
Hell yeah.
Ummm…Bruce? Ya might wanna, you know read the article.
It also says we ain’t gonna let anybody else put up intel sats. Including our allies.
The US is led by crazy people. I’m scared. No joke.
Actually the guy was not from Germany, but from Austria.
Did you even bother reading the article? The plans go so far as to interdict other nations from using their own satellites.
That the USA doesn’t provide intel to other nations and that foreign satellite payloads conveniently exploded has already led to the european Ariane being the most cost efficient unmanned space transportation craft.
This revising of policies during peace times is truly sickening though and almost makes me wish the cold war wasn’t over . Almost.
Because when the Russians were still the big bad, everyone agreed not to deploy weapons in space. Now that this isn’t the case anymore, the USA canceled that treaty. They wouldn’t cancel it, if they didn’t plan on stationing nuclear weapons right above our very heads.
In any case, it’s worth worrying over, because you can only push the rest of the world so much, before things are going to snap. And when they do, god help us all.
sweet jesus! :eek: :eek: :eek:
:: sounds of telephone dialing ::
“hello, Sherwin Williams? i’d like to place an order for 5 million gallons of red paint, please. yes, priority delivery would be best. it’s gonna take a while to get that giant bull’s-eye painted all across the U.S., so the sooner we start, the better.”
WTF is Bush trying to do??? US (whichever way you want to interpret that) against the world… even with all our “military might”, there’s a whole hell lot more of them than just us-ins.
anyone know if Jody Foster has any new boyfriend wannabes?
:smack:
I’m not going to get into a 5 page GD style argument with you guys. But just for fun, here we go:
plnnr, I get jokes. That was a joke as well, if poorly written itself, an Austin Powers reference. Note the italics on laser. I’ll try to be more obvious next time 
jjimm, that is a good point, and I agree. I would be very surprised if the UK was on the shutout list, though.
Everybody else, yeah, I read the whole article. The US has nuclear weapons that could be used against our Allies. Doesn’t mean we do.
If you haven’t already, I urge all US citizens, if they haven’t already, to read Rebuilding America’s Defenses (PDF file, 852Kb). This is the document from 2000 that the administration is cribbing from - in fact, many of them wrote the damned thing.
jjimm, pardon my humble opinion, but there’s a world of difference between exercising “geopolitical leadership” and dictating to the rest of the planet what they can do, where and when.
a (real) leader understands that s/he has followers. it is generally advisable for said followers to believe in, trust, and otherwise understand that the course of action being urged upon them is for some “positive” outcome. otherwise, a pronounced lack of followers may result. heck, former followers can easily turn into opponents.
i find it hard to buy that any/all other countries are going to tamely lie down and be told what they may and may not know or learn about simply on our say-so that “we know what they need to know.” (and, implicitly, that we’ll actually let them know it.)
i’d be skeptical in the extreme of anyone who tried to sell me that pile 'o crap. and i’m sure i have a whole lot less at stake than any particular independent nation.
lachesis, I think we’re singing from the same hymn-sheet. It’s my opinion that the simplistic ideological desire for “military preeminence” is outweighing and undermining the subtle and intelligent diplomacy required to create “leadership”, or forge decent alliances.
Unfortunately, the way things are going, if the US wants to do something, the US can do something, and nobody can stand in their way. I reckon if Blair resists, say, an Iran invasion, Bush wouldn’t give a second thought to the alleged “special relationship” with the UK, and would immediately shut down the alliance.
:: whimper ::
can i go hide under the bed now?
think i’m gonna give my BIL hell for voting Nader.
I don’t know what to think of our government these days, but I know this:
There must be a most powerful country. Someone will always be #1. The rest of the world is fortunate that it’s the United States, and not the Soviet Union or the Germany that Hitler was trying to build, for instance.
I can understand why some people would be nervous about the USA seemingly grabbing for more power, but if through some twist of fate a country like North Korea was the world’s sole superpower, you’d be terrified.
What country is better suited to be #1?
As far as resources are concerned, none whatsoever.
But what US citizens should remember is that the principles applied within the borders of the US do not apply outside. Sure, the relationship is usually OK for us western allies (apart from, say, France, which is about to get economically shafted), but if you’re unfortunate enough to be born into a third-world country in which the US has an interest, you can be sure that all sorts of dirty nasty games are going to be played by US overseas intelligence and security forces. Policy is inconsistent and has often been as nasty as the enemies of the US have been. And that worries me, because there are absolutely no checks and balances.
I agree. I can accept the USA trying to control the overall scheme of things, as in the link in the OP, but I do have a problem when we start trying to micro-manage every aspect of the friggin’ planet.
All that does is breed resentment, and eventually leads to military conflict, and when we win easily there’s more resentment, etc.