Schiavo question: What's the deal with the broken bones?

To my knowlege, in the U.S, Cardio Pulmonary Resuscitation is regulated by the American Heart Association, making chest compressions a standard of care. If the chart says CPR, she had chest compressions.

That said, remember there is no guarrantee that the document circulating on the internet as her medical history is genuine, it very well could be cut from whole cloth, by individuals with a hidden (or not so hidden) agenda. Since HIPAA Laws preclude the random release of medical information, its not likely.

As far as her fractures go, if she had an eating disorder severe enough to cause her to have a cardiac arrest, she had stress fractures from calcium and phosphorus having been leached from her bones. End stage eating disorders can cause crippling bone disease.
The fractures are not a smoking gun.

The fact that her husband didn’t begin CPR is of little note, since, when its a loved one in extremus, training often flies out the window.
In my opinion, he wouldn’t be fighting so hard to allow her some final dignity, if he didn’t love her. Why not just walk away years ago? When chosing between a complicated, unusual scenario and a simple one… chose the simple. Its almost always right.

“When hearing hoof beats outside your window, think, horses, not zebras.” (from The House of God by Samuel Shem MD)

Which brings up a question that borders on the philosophical. If Michael Schiavo believes that Terri has no consciousness, no cognition, no comprehension, then how could she herself experience dignity, or the lack of it? It would seem she would be totally incapable.

So we don’t need to show any respect for the wishes of people once they have no awareness of their situation?

Maybe he believes she has conscousness on another plane.
But, since the Schiavo family’s private beliefs are none of my business, I won’t speculate further.

But that’s avoiding the question I asked.

We as a culture reverence dignity long after a person is dead. Why else do we have cemetaries, where the plots are cared for meticulously? Or think of the Tr-State Crematorium case in Georgia. The owner’s actual crimes were fraud, yet he received death threats; fraud doesn’t usually cause that level of vitriol and loathing. There are also laws about “abuse of the corpse”, which exist because we have a concept of dignity for the deceased. Finally, consider the scrupulous observation of the dignity of condemned death-row prisoners, even unto their execution.

What I’m saying is Terri’s dignity did not end with her heart attack or diagnosis of PVS; efforts to protect that dignity need not end there, either.

Exactly. Dignity is not removed when consciousness is. If someone were to drag my corpse through the street after I died (to use an extreme example), I wouldn’t be aware of it, but my dignity would suffer from it.

So the answer is, no, she herself is incapable of experiencing dignity or indignity?

Like the exact opposite of what I just said?

You just said, “I wouldn’t be aware of it,” and that is my question.

In the sense that she is physically incapable of percieving anything, then yes. Is it your assertion from this that there is nothing that can damage her dignity?

Dignity being a function of consciousness of oneself, then yes, there is nothing that can damage her dignity. All the body dragging in the world doesn’t change it.

I disagree in the strongest possible terms with every word of your post. My dignity extends beyond my death, into how I am treated and remembered.

An odd definition, and one that the history of Western civilization does not support. As far back as the desecration of Hector’s corpse being dragged around the walls of Troy by Achilles, such actions are acknowledged as robbing the decedant of dignity.

Iiliad, book XXII

Presumably, Walloon disagrees with old Priam and would welcome this treatment of a corpse.

Dignity is “the quality or state of being worthy, honored, or esteemed.” Terri’s parents no doubt believe she is worthy, honorable, and they esteem her. Michael Schiavo no doubt believes that she is worthy, honorable, and he esteems her. Why? Because a person’s dignity is based on their own words and deeds in their lifetimes.

And so, Raygun99, I disagree with you in the strongest terms.

On NPR yesterday, it was said that Michael Schiavo’s position became intractable during an early deposition. His attorney asked the Schindlers what they would do during various hypothetical future medical problems. He ran through a series of increasingly dire and horrid possibilities, running from amputations to open heart surgery; The Schindlers always answered that they would do whatever was necessary to keep her alive. Reportedly, after hearing this Michael said that he would never let them have charge of her care.
Personally, I can understand that. At some point, you have to say enough.

To amplify that statement, they also testified that they would use any measures to keep her alive, even if they were absolutely certain Terri would not have wanted that.

No, my friend, the definition of dignity, according to * Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary*: “dig-ni-ty : the quality or state of being worthy, honored, or esteemed.”
Nothing about feeling worthy or cognizant of being honored or even, conscious of esteem.

Sorry, but she is capable of having dignity as long as she remains in anyone memory.

Dignity is not solely a reflexive quality, otherwise there would be no society-wide respect for the dignity of a person’s corpse, nor of a person’s memory. If dignity were exclusively defined by the present feelings of the person so dignified, “speak only good of the dead” wouldn’t be the watchword.