All busses in NZ are required to stop and look, as are various hazardous vehicles. They then get to watch all the idjits go round them.
We also have school busses. They are normal busses, with signs on them, which are only meant to be displayed while kids are on them.
Scr4 is correct about Britain, there’s no particular rules, although a small number of areas have bought special vehicles. Not here though, and this was a recent incident.
Do you guys not have warning lights and barricades on your level crossings? Or is the assumption that they may be broken?
FWIW there is no such rule over here - and while I’ve heard numerous stoires of people/cars being hit on level crossings it always seems to be either a)ignored/couldn’t hear (deafness or whatever) the bells or b) got stuck in the middle before the train was apparent, then couldn’t get unstuck in time.
Many crossings for low volume rail traffic have neither lights nor barriers.
Quite a few crossings have lights but no barriers.
We don’t actually trust the lights or barriers to work on all occasions.
The DoD schools I attended in the UK chartered buses from local coach companies. There were no particular rules or regs for school buses. In fact, every year some new kid would almost get creamed by a bus not knowing that British buses weren’t required to stop after dropping them off. In fact, I think that happened on my first day of kindergarten at Lakenheath Elementary. Sad, really.
The veteran bus drivers usually knew that we had different rules in America and would wait to let kids cross before heading off.
So I am at this restaurant one morning eating breakfast. I see school buses and RTD buses stopping at tracks that appear to pass behind the cafe I am in. I don’t think too much about it.
When I left I noticed that tracks in the pavement were the only tracks, period. No tracks in the sidewalk, and there were buildings on both side, where the tracks used to be 30 years ago.
Yet ever fricking bus stopped for no good reason every time they approached these these two pieces of metal embedded in the pavement.
I understand the stopping at train crossings rationale, but why the hell can’t they turn right on red? Talk about screwing up traffic.
I don’t understand why they have to stop at a crossing when they’re empty and on the way to the lot where they’re kept, which is just beyond the crossing.
Because turning right on red in a vehicle that handles like a bus isn’t that safe.
They accelerate slowly, and often can’t turn right into the lane nearest the curb, making it even more dangerous. They’re good and wide targets, and if you don’t put it out there, it’s a little safer.
Having driven school busses in California many years ago, I can answer a few of these - at least with 1980s laws.
DrDeth, those signs are posted when the track is decertified. There is absolutely no chance of a train coming through that crossing, therefore busses aren’t required to stop.
The short answer is, in California, at least, they don’t.
In California, a school bus is only a school bus when children are on board. If the bus is empty, it is considered a large yellow commercial vehicle. Accidents are reported two ways. If the bus is empty, it’s simply an accident. If there is one or more children on board, it is considered a school bus accident and several agencies must get involved, including the California Highway Patrol, who oversee school buses in the state.
So if there are no students on board, the bus doesn’t have to stop. Why do they do it? It’s drilled into drivers from day one that they should observe all school bus laws, empty or loaded. Habit is the reason. When a driver comes up to a railroad crossing, he or she doesn’t have to think “Are there children on board?” It’s simply “Oh. Railroad crossing. I must stop.” And believe me, when you’re loaded with middle school kids, it’s nice to have the automatic habit kick in.
Make sense?
Yikes, I can certainly see how that was a problem. But it strikes me that the problem with the American rules is that by removing the very obvious hazard (moving bus), you’re introducing another danger (lack of road safety awareness).
In NY state at least, you stop and open the doors to look AND listen, both before the railroad intersection and at the intersection. Visibility other than straight ahead in a bus is terrible, that’s why all the mirrors. And that is why you have to stay behind that white line. Most buses have windshield columns and divided doors which block some of your line of sight, plus the glass can be dirty and foggy from all the hot little bodies inside. Not to mention that all those road signs are very often at the exact height of a bus or truck driver eyes. So you take your time, both looking and listening. NY state had a horrendous bus, train crash about twenty years ago and tightened their school bus rules considerably. You don’t turn on red because some of your just discharged passengers might be scooting across the street, especially a problem with the youngest and least visible - they are too short to see in front of a bus - kids. Even though they are taught, they seldom look.
My God, they sound like pretty badly designed vehicles given their specific purpose!
They use essentially the same technology as city traffic lights…ever seen a malfunctioning traffic signal, or failed to get the left turn arrow because the presence detector didn’t know you were there?
My father made a nice career of repairing crossing (along with other signal equipment) for a fairly small railroad. (<1000 mi of track)
I don’t generally stop, but I NEVER cross tracks without visually looking for trains.
Also with the busses: Up to say 20 mph or so, a bus can stop in it’s own length or less…speeds which are common in congested traffic. Stopping forces the driver to consider if there is enough room on the other side for the entire bus to clear the crossing before traffic forces it to stop again.
Right, about what I thought. I was referring to "
Originally Posted by IntelSoldier
*Speaking of “because it’s the law”, my school bus had to stop at the tracks by my house every time for 4 years. Funny thing is, the tracks lead to a collapsed bridge that used to cross the creak. There’s a friggin’ TREE growing in the middle of the tracks right next to the road. Any train that crossed the road there would have to barrel through this tree and subsequently tumble down 30 feet into the river. I’m not even sure the OTHER side was connected to the rail line. Still had to stop…oi.
*
whne I said “Now, see- that’s silly.”
The signs are not silly, what is silly is that there aren’t more of them.
Yes, it seems like that’s where a problem lies. Ours are the same technology as the railway signalling, indeed they are an integral part of it. If that malfunctions, the trains are stopped until it’s rectified.
Sure? Most places I know, road traffic lights are activated by induction coils. You can’t freak out traffic lights with a set of jumper cables…
There’s also the problem, in more urban environments, of potentially getting stuck on the tracks by stopped traffic ahead of you, and then a train comes along. (Local example - in this particular case, the tracks cut diagonally across a road intersection, explaining the number of vehicles involved.) The commuter trains may be traveling 50 mph or faster if they don’t have a stop any time soon.
You’re not supposed to proceed anyway if you don’t have clearance to actually get past the track, but I suspect few car drivers allow the vehicle ahead of them to clear the track and leave enough room for them to clear, before driving ahead. Stopping to look also serves as way for the bus driver to let the track clear as well as make room for the bus to get over and clear of the track completely, plus the driver will know if a train is coming if he or she isn’t certain whether driving on would be a good move.
Here’s something to throw a spanner into the works…
A little while back, there was a serious accident in the Australian outback between a large truck (forget if it was a road train or a “B double” - but more than one trailer) and a transcontinental tourist train.
The subsequent inquiry found that the truck had stopped at the crossing (which had no bells, lights, or boom gates), the driver had checked the line in both directions, and not seeing a train, had proceeded. A moment or so after the “point of no return”, a train came into view. The truck, being so big and slow, was not clear of the track when the train hit one of the trailers. Ironically, if the truck had not stopped at the crossing, but been allowed to maintain a reasonable speed, the accident would likely not have happened.
I’ll try to dig up some cites.
Don’t forget that non-protected crossings (and even protected crossings) have multiple means of advising you. Aside from the obvious flashing lights, there are loud-as-hell bells. Trains also blare their horns. They put gates into the two crossings that enter my neighborhood’s region after old people kept killing themselves, although I wonder that if they couldn’t hear nor see so much obvious commotion that they shouldn’t have been licensed anyway. In a bus full of kids, I could imagine the audible problems being a concern.