I’m looking.
I found some of Gatto’s stuff online, and it’s a little extreme. If I have time today I’ll see what else is on the web.
Yeah, he can be pretty extreme, but he makes some good points, and compares our public schools with the school is other countries, as well as how schooling is set up in Amish country. He gets off on some silly tangents here and there, but he’s still worth reading. You gotta figure that anyone who wins a handfull of “Best Teacher of the Year” awards and then quits their job in disgust has something to say. I would have suggested you preview a book or two of his at amazon, but it seems they took the sample pages down. Oh well.
Hey, here’s a page with a grab bag of quotes:
“Our schools have been scientifically designed to prevent over-education from happening…The average American [should be] content with their humble role in life, because they’re not tempted to think about any other role.” - William Harris, U.S. Commissioner of Education, 1889
“The first goal and primary function of the U.S. public school is not to educate good people, but good citizens. It is the function which we call in enemy nations ‘state indoctrination’.” – Jonathan Kozol 1990
I agree- execpt delete the word “humbly” above.
Calling authoritative dudes “NAZIS” makes you look bad, and you have lost the debate after using just one word.
Oh and “In his book “The Third Wave” (1980), Alvin Toffler says that the underlying curriculum being taught in American schools, whatever the specific subject matter of the course, is:…” is more or less correct, but as usual a cheap shot was taken against America here as that is the way MOST schools everywhere are run. You have heard about British Public Schools, I suppose?
I am having great difficulty in finding linkable works, which surprises me. Most of the stuff I have seen that I seek is almost certainly in the Public Domain by now, and could easily be reprinted as a web page.
Of Horace Mann’s 12 Annual Reports, only a handful are reproduced online. Of the work of Ellwood Cubberley, I can only find his History of Education, which, at first blush, contain almost no of his very influential and now controversial views on the administration of schools. Score one for his integrity in keeping a survey a survey, but I wish some of more opinionated stuff were more easily available. Bobbitt is similarly unrepresented. The best I can find from these latter two gentlemen is ominous quotes.
I am intrigued, but I lack time to go to the library these days. I aplogize for forwarding arguments without sufficient documentation (I was first exposed to these strains of thought in a University environment, which is not now convenient to me), but there’s not much more for me to contribute to this thread at this time.
A case I’ve encountered with sources on other issues.
One interesting data point: around here the local government agency in charge of the public schools was referred to, from 1900 to the late 1980s, as the Department of Public Instruction as opposed to “education”, and the commonwealth constitution says there is a “right” to an education that will make you a good citizen (but mandates the establishment of schools of public instruction).
Rarely does one see an SDMB thread with such absurd and laughable hyperbole. You’d think you people had gone to school in an alternate universe written by Robert Heinlein, directed by Leni Riefenstahl and scored by Richard Wagner, starring Peter Cushing as Principal Tarkin.
Sure, some teachers aren’t as good as others. Gotta tell you, though, between elementary school and high school I had maybe 50 teachers and never encountered a Nazi. Christ, grow up, people. Being given lines for not doing your homework is not the equivalent of being sent to the gas chambers. Learning isn’t always fun.
Directed by Paul Vehoeven, you mean? It’s a vicious satire. 