I fully agree w/ you on this point, Jophiel. The only beef I really have(not for the sake of argument) is the use of uniforms in public schools. A dress code worked for me.
::ducks thrown gauntlet::
“Uniforms save money”:
Wha? I’m still wearing some of the same clothes I wore in middle school (in a Jr in college now). In fact, they’re beaten up enough by now that they probably wouldn’t have been allowable under a dress code. If you’re spending that much money on other clothes for children, then they simply need to learn that you don’t have to have an entirely new wardrobe every year. From about 7th grade on, I got at most two pairs of pants, a few t shirts, and some underwear every year. If this is bank breaking, I don’t see how a uniform won’t be. Now, obviously, things will tend not to fit after a year, but this problem reduced towards high school, and is the same for a uniform.
“It’s easier to get dressed”:
Huh? It’s not that hard to get dressed, fercryingoutloud. You pull out some underwear, and put it on. You pull out a shirt, and put it on. You pull out some pants and socks, and put them on. If they don’t match, they don’t match. Once again, people are attributing a self-imposed problem to the lack of a uniform; worries about what matches and what doesn’t are your own bloody problem. If you really feel that you waste so much time on that, then make the slight effort to buy clothes that match, or buy a uniform of your own volition.
And these are just the most obvious points.
Myrr, I couldn’t have ever said it any better. I commend you. 
Myrr21
Your points are valid for junior high and above, but I haven’t heard of anyone advocating mandatory uniforms for public junior high and high schools ( and please remember, I originally said I don’t think it can be mandatory in public schools.) The only public schools I’ve heard people in my area advocate uniforms for are grade schools. Your points aren’t so valid for grade schoolers.
- Uniforms are cheaper- You may have been able to get by with two new pairs of pants and a few t-shirts a year by 7th grade. That doesn’t mean a second grader can. Uniforms (in my experience) are made differently than the clothes my children wear for play. For example- jeans generally do not have any elastic at the waist, and cannot be bought long, shortened and let down later as my son’s uniform pants can. This gets a pair of uniform pants to last through at least two sizes of jeans. My daughter had one jumper from kindergarten to fourth grade, because there was enough of a hem to keep letting it down and enough elastic at the waist. Could I have bought non-uniform,but still especially-for-school clothes with the same characteristics? Probably, but that goes to the second point.
2)Uniforms are easier- If I had bought those non-uniform clothes my kids wouldn’t have worn them ( at least not without a fight), because no one else would be wearing them (they’d all be wearing jeans). Uniforms aren’t easier for the kid, they’re easier for the parents. I didn’t really want to fight with my daughter every morning about what she would wear, as she changed her mind fifteen times.Sure, I would have won, but the uniform eliminates any discussion.
This is just a impression, but I have a feeling most of those who think there are advantages to uniforms and even fairly restrictive dress codes are thinking of younger kids than those who don’t see advantages.
I just have to post a paragraph from the listserve that prompted me to begin this thread. This post is from a girl with whom I’ve been arguing w/ about uniforms.
“I also did the public and private school thing; wearing no uniform and wearing a uniform. Personally I liked wearing the uniform because it wasn’t a hassle getting ready in the morning. Although, I am a girl and I do like to wear my own clothes too. The reason why I still believe uniforms would be a good idea is because not only do they have so many benefits, but I do think it would decrease the amount of judging, and possibly reduce some cliques at a school. I came from a high school where, yes Logan, there were a lot of people who based a lot of their friendships upon the way he/she dressed. Sure it wasn’t the only reason they were
friends with certain people, but you wouldn’t ever see them talk to anyone that didn’t dress like them. It was actually really sad to see. To the class, I want to pose the question, why wouldn’t you encourage wearing uniforms if it had so many benefits? If wearing a uniform would increase our grade performance, possibly reduce judging, and lessen the amount of violence, why say no? Shouldn’t we all strive to become better people day in and day out?”
How am I supposed to respond to that??
Yes, but I went to a public school! You can change your job, but I couldn’t change what school I went to.
Ludo-
Respond to what? Did she actually say something in there? Seriously, she said she found it less of a hassle to get dressed in the morning, and that some group at her school based their friendships on dress ( as if uniforms prevent cliques). From there, she jumps to uniforms have many benefits,such as increasing grades, decreasing violence, (giving no support whatsoever for these statements}, and finishes with "Shouldn’t we all strive to become better people…? Where did she get that uniforms make better people? I’ve never heard anyone say that. Are prison inmates suddenly better people if they’re wearing a uniform? If A wants to steal B’s sneakers and would, but can’t because B left them home, is A a better person? I don’t think so.
I don’t see how school uniforms make better students. When I was in seventh grade we had a reasonable dress code that no one had any real big problems with. But in eighth grade we got a new principal who added stupid restrictions to the dress code. We didn’t like the new dress code, couldn’t see any reason for it, and rebelled against not only the dress code but many other rules the principal later made.
But that’s just me speaking from personal experience that an extremely strict dress code that was practically a uniform made everyone at my school worse students.
As this has been the most uproarious, rebellious year at my high school thus far, I actually feel qualified to speak.
Last year, we went on a more restrictive dress code. This year, it got even stricter.
For instance, those of us who wear cargo pants routinely get our pockets searched for all those Uzis hiding out in our obviously empty pockets.
That said…I don’t think a uniform would help my school any. All of the racial/gender/class tension that has been building up is exploding all over my school, and it has nothing to do with clothes and everything to do with cliques, which in most high schools are defined by INTERESTS and not APPAREL. The jocks hate the actors, the actors hate the Jesus freaks, the Jesus freaks hate the misfits…etc.
It definitely wouldn’t help all the racial divides. That is simply attitude at my rural Southern school. We don’t have gang “colors,” but we have enough hate to fill the Marianas Trench.
The only thing it would eliminate is the tight clothing…and that’s not even distracting anymore.
That said, I hate the idea of uniforms. My parents spend about 100 dollars a year on clothes for me, tops. And the expenses the school imposes (graduation, prom, band, choir, drama, etc.) are far too much, anyway. If uniforms are as expensive as this thread has proven, then most students’ families would be terribly out-of-luck, because many families at my school can’t afford 1.50 a day for their children’s lunch.
Four years of boarding school. Four years of (for the majority of the school year) jacket and tie. U. G. H.
Those quasi-uniforms caused more trouble alone than smoking, pot, drinking and general ickiness combined. More hours of work squad (sorta detention) because the students didn’t see the point of wearing jacket and tie and didn’t want to, and didn’t particuuarly care what the consequences were.
If you have to wear a uniform and you’re poor . . . do I even have to get into the outlandish social stratification here?
As a side note, matt_mcl, I share your pain. You need any support in this thread, you got it. While I do think some sort of order should be put in to make sure people don’t wear speedos or something to class, I intensely hate uniforms or any other school-inflicted pain.