I’ve suffered for having an English accent. Anti-English racism is a real problem and not recent, as a quick use of your favourite search engine would reveal.
http://www.scotsman.com/anti-english-bullying-1-1810591
Boy, 7, attacked in Scotland for wearing England shirt | Daily Mail Online (from 2006)
etc etc.
My problem with it is starting out with this referendum. The mandate the SNP have for calling the referendum in the first place was granted with a minimum voting age of 18. In my view therefore the consequent referendum vote should be conducted with the same franchise on principles of simple democracy.
I have no strong views about changing *subsequent *elections to allow the vote at 16 in Scotland, it is just this one is too important a place to start changing the rules when a *different *group of voters gave them the mandate.
On the issue of anti-English bullying etc. in Scotland (I’m a Londoner, married a Scot and have lived in Edinburgh since 2005) I can confirm it is certainly present. I’m a 6’1", 205 lbs and in reasonable shape - so I don’t tend to get too much hassle. Mostly pretty stuff, queue jumping, getting served first at bars etc but it has got worse as this Independence Campaign has gone on.
I’m a firm NO by the way, as is my Scottish wife, to the extent that we may leave for south of the border in the unlikely event the vote goes against us.
This was a really stupid thing for me to say. Sorry about that amanset, and also the other English Dopers who stay in Scotland. I really must learn not to extrapolate from my own limited experience. 
So you’re a settler English of the deep undercover variety? 
With all due respect, I wouldn’t claim to “know” any culture based on the experience you state above. Do you feel familiar with the complicated internal class struggles within Scotland (that have nothing to do with England)? Do you relate at all to the great proportion of Scots who support unionism?
…oh. Thought you said “enjoyed”.
There’s just been a debate on the TV. I thought it a no-score draw, with both sides missing open goals.
The BBC’s coverage of the debate: Scottish independence: Salmond and Darling clash in TV debate - BBC News
I did not watch it - as my mind is already made up. From the breakfast TV sound bites this morning I’m glad I gave it a miss. By the sound of it it contained nothing that would convince the undecided voter (who surely is the only audience it should have been interesting to) either way.
I guess we should watch how the polls move as a consequent but Salmond’s supposed superior debating skills should produce a positive for the YES vote so no move or better would be a success for the NO campaign IMHO.
The BBC report already has 1157 comments to it as I write this. The rapid politicos on both sides are certainly in full spin mode this morning!
Personally i find Salmond style is too argumentative - I suspect that is why so many women are so negative about him according to polls and women voters have been a key battleground that the NO campaign has largely won over.
I think you are setting the barrier of assimilation rather too high. I suspect my knowledge of Scottish history and politics is somewhat broader and deeper than your average Scot because I read avidly. I doubt that your average Scot could talk coherently about Scottish politics or history for any length of time- with the same going for your average English, America, French person. Much nationalism is simple prejudice rather than knowledge.
I can understand Unionist Scots and can empathise with them. I am no avid nationalist, having stated repeatedly that I am inclined to think that Independence is worth a shot, but Devo Max and then Independence in another decade is more likely.
I’m not setting a barrier for assimilation; rather a barrier for choosing to join the SNP. Is is possible that you are motivated by anti-English/anti-British feeling more than you are by a knowledge of Scottish culture - as evidenced by other posts where you carefully use terms like “the North of Ireland” (oh please!)
I thought Devo Max was dropped from the ballot? Or are you referring to a hypothetical future agreement?
Why should there be any barrier to supporting any political party. They reflect my social democratic beliefs better than any other party and have governed well for the last few years. Are you suggesting that some level of cultural awareness is needed to support only nationalist parties? Sounds ridiculous to me.
And what is wrong with “the north of Ireland?” “Northern Ireland” recognises the six counties as a political unit and is unionist. “Ulster” is incorrect. “The six counties” is a nationalist phrase. The north of Ireland is a neutral term. Get over it.
Devon max is on its way if there is a no vote. There are the Colman recommendations, the recent tri- partite tax presales, and the need to defend against a second bite at the independence cherry in a decade. It will be difficult to deny Scotland much of what it demands post referendum.
Does not sound that ridiculous to me. What has the social democratic credentials (if any, but let’s not get into that) of the SNP let alone your expertise in Scottish culture got to do with the the separate issue of Independence?
If you want an independent Scotland fine - but if it happened the SNP would not be the ruling party for ever. Surely you desire for an independent Scotland should be based on wider criteria, criteria that will hold whomever governed a theoretical independent state? You’re answer to his question on Irish terminology is a bit of a give-away indeed. Northern Ireland is a statement of political fact - or do you deny or not wish to acknowledge that they are indeed a political unit? Do you have a private phrase you use instead of the United Kingdom, given that is equally unionist?
I have met a few non-native Scots that like you have adopted pro-Independence views and it always looks like “trying too hard” to me. I think it is absolutely clear that your anti-British or maybe just anti-English views are part of a package of beliefs.
Hopefully when the NO vote wins out that will put to bed any independence vote for at least a generation. It should do - we cannot go through this farce every five years. Sadly I fear it won’t - due to a hard core of fanatical independence zealots.
Sounds a bit like a certain major political party in the U.S. Even when they lose, they adamantly insist they have a mandate and the moral high ground.
I agree with notquitekarpov’s response to your other points. How do you manage to interact with any fellow English/British people - do they consider you a bit of an “Uncle Tom”?
Referring to the North of Ireland rather than Northern Ireland so akin to referring to the Zionist Entity rather than Israel.
You may not like either, but denying their current existence is a futile and, frankly, highly revealing exercise.
Regarding the North of Ireland I think you will find the answer to this complicated question on Wikipedia. I reserve the right to choose from the variety of terms and find North of Ireland and South of Ireland and the North and the South as the most neutral terms. I believe that the North is a valid part of the UK until, under the Good Friday Agreement, a majority vote to join the South in one political entity. I believe this will happen within the lifetime of current adults.
I identify as European and English and less so as British. My ancestors for many generations are English to the core except for one gg grandparent who came across in the famine.
I do not identify as Scottish at all, but feel warm towards their way of running a country whether under the previous liblab coalition or under the current SNP government.
I am a long term believer in integration through Europe under the principle of subsidiarity- with as many as possible laws delegated to the lowest level.
The push for independence in Scotland will not go away. Another decade of real conservative government would probably be the final straw. I expect a second referendum before 2030 if as seems likely the current decision is NO. IMHO of course.
I live in an area of Scotland with considerable English immigration and we split into two fairly equal camps of Yes and No with little recrimination.
If you believe that Northern Ireland will vote to join the Republic on the basis of a free vote in our lifetimes then I think you have lost your grip on reality.
I will file you other views accordingly.
But as most people expected Salmond to wipe the floor with Darling, it’s like Wycombe holding Manchester City to a draw.
I just caught up on the debate, having had to download it and watch it later. I’m surprised there isn’t more discussion about it here.
I thought Alex Salmond’s opening was good, and as he was speaking I felt like, if I had a vote, I would certainly consider the “yes” option.
Unfortunately, this emotive opener was the best part of his performance. Both sides repeatedly dodged questions, but the questions Alex Salmond dodged were about real issues and how he plans to make independence work - he didn’t seem interested in talking much about the details of his plans. When given the opportunity to ask questions in turn, he seemed more interested in scoring points over relatively minor issues, trying to make Alistair Darling and the “no” side look foolish (“Project Fear” was brought out, yet again) and appealing to patriotism (“we invented everything”), when the campaign really should have got past the empty rhetoric phase and into the real details by now. Clearly, that is what those who travelled to see the debate wanted, and I think it was unreasonably disrespectful of everyone involved.
I agree with a lot of Alex Salmond’s non-nationalist politics, but I wouldn’t want someone who behaved like that as the leader of a fully independent country.
That’s really not true. Referring to a country by its geographical location rather than actual name is a deliberate choice to make a statement. You may not agree that there should be two countries on the island of Ireland, but deliberately picking a term to avoid acknowledging that there currently are is not neutral.
Strange, as many of my friends consider Darling to have bested Salmond, not all Unionists either!
IN 2010 with the South in economic crisis the split was 55/36 on whether there would be reunification by 2021.
A swing of 10% would equalise this.
Not unthinkable before say 2030 or 2040.