I work part time in a fast food restaurant in Edinburgh. We have a set of electronic top pan balances which we use to measure out certain food. Someone, and it’s unclear at this stage whather it was an accident of on purpose, the only remaining working set of scales in a sink full of soapy water, ruining them.
Our manager has stated that unless the culprit owns up (and if it was accidental, then probably nobody would own up, as it’s impossible to remember washing a single item, based on the number of items washed every day) we’d all have to contribute towards buying a new set (they retail at £40, so it would be about £4 each, not exactly going to break the bank, but still…).
Is this legal? Can he force everyone to pay for a new set?
Even if it wasn’t, I’d probably still end up paying, to keep the relatively good relation between the management and employees.
“I work part time in a fast food restaurant in Edinburgh. We have a set of electronic top pan balances which we use to measure out certain foods. Someone, and it’s unclear at this stage whather it was an accident or on purpose, placed the only remaining working set of scales in a sink full of soapy water, ruining them.”
That’s harsh. 4 pounds? Isn’t that like, ten bucks in American money? :eek:
I wouldn’t be surprised if this purpose of this announcement is to get the real culprit to come forward, either voluntarily or by force. After all, in the interest of not having to pay for someone else’s mistake, I’m sure a lot of employees will want to get to the bottom of this.
I don’t know about the legality of this and I’d be surprised if there was a definitive answer. From my own working experience this would be accepted as one of the risks of the job- unless of course he has reason to believe that it wasn’t an accident.
By upsetting 9 of you to get at 1 doesn’t make sense as far as having a harmonious working environment goes.
Perhaps the manager said this on the spur of the moment and in retrospect might think again.
I’m not a lawyer - but I am an employer in the UK and I would say that the simple answer to this is to look at your contract.
Unless the contract specifically states that deductions such as these (or more usually till shortages) come out of your wages then really the employer is on fairly dodgy ground IMHO.
Also he would be in a rather awkward position if he later tried to sack the person who broke the scales, as they have been replaced by you all.
Finally he really is being a bit of a berk by upsetting his entire staff team over a one-off possibly accidental incident. Given time he will probably realise this. If he doesn’t; just ask yourself how much you want the job and would you pay a £4 fee to keep it.
In most states in the US, he would be unable to require you to pay the fine, but he would be perfectly free to fire you if you refused (or for any other non-discriminatory reason.)
It sounds dubious to me, but I’m not in a postion to know - I second GorillaMan - talk to the CAB if you can.
Admittedly, £4.00 is not much, but at times it IS much! Buys food, bus fares, that sort of little detail. I mean, you are doing this pert-time job with the intention of profitting by it. It does seem to me that the employer, if unable to discover the culprit, ought to be the one stuck with paying for a replacement, but…well…'phone your nearest CAB on Monday, and find a time you can go and talk to them.
(Of course, it now occurs to me that some part-time food-industry jobs don’t exactly bother with written contracts… )
However, another thought, doesn’t this boss have some kind of insurance for “bad-things-that-happen-by accident”?
OK, I’ve thought about this a bit more, and even though IANAL I’m 100% certain he can’t do this:
You each have an contract of employment with the company. Each of you are liable for punishments as laid out in that contract, for things for which you are shown to be liablle (or for which you admit).
Collective punishment does not exist. What he’s doing is individually punishing each of you by docking £4. And if any individual cannot be shown to be liable, they cannot be legally punished. And by acknowledging he’s doing it to all of you even though you aren’t all guilty, he’s admitting to punishing people unfairly.
He is breaching your contract of employment. If you quit over this (ok, unlikely for £4, but we’re talking theoretically), he’s guilty of constructive dismissal. I suggest the ten of you get together, go and speak to him as one group, and point this out to him.
Fast food outlets have a pretty poor reputation, remember the zero hours contract scandal ?
Legally he cannot do this, because not only is it not in your contract, it cannot be put in either, and if such a term was in there, it would be deemed unfairand void.
Employers simply do not have the right to put any term they wish in their contracts, and this also includes their terms of sales and service.
Go to the citizens advice bureau, because you must look at this as a possible precedent, its £4 now, but what happens when some major appliance goes down and the manager decides(at his convenience and connivance) that it is sabotage.
The manager does have the right to call in the police citing possible criminal damage, but the police just will not be interested.
I would be very interested to know if this is part of a larger chain, and what the head office view of this is, because they will be well aware that the new Scottish Parliament is looking for issues to flex its new found muscle, I’d imagine that Scottish workers being collectively punished and exploited will not go down well.
I’d also expect that local newspapers would also be interested, as I say, remember the zero hours contracts, the fast food industry does not want that kind of publicity again.
I found that part interesting. You have one or more broken fixtures that he just hasn’t bothered to have fixed. Why? Money? Now that the last one is inoperable, at least one will be replaced. And not at his expense. I know next to nothing about employment law over there, but this just seems to scream, “Cheap, miserly jerk.”
Legally, no. You’re not in kidnergarden. The notion is absurd.
On the flip side how good is the job? If the job is good, this is probably one of those scenarios where it’s better to go along and stay employed. You need to pick the hills that are worth dying on, and this doesn’t sound like the one.
It’s a fast food joint. Question (probably) answered. It’s the hassle of walking round other places, and giving half-truths as to why you left your last job, that’s the problem.
I am an Australian lawyer and do practice in this field to a small degree. English law is fairly similar so the following is probably pretty much right, but check with English law sources before relying on the following, I am not your lawyer, you are not my client etc.
The UK is not a fire at will jurisdiction except (as far as I can make out) if you have been employed for less than a year. Like Australia, unfairly dismissed employees can sue for damages.
At the risk of stating the bleedingly obvious, it is pretty much a certainty that there will be nothing in your contract that says that deductions from your wages can be made for expenses incurred in by the owner in running the business unless you cause them.
So no money can be deducted for the scales unless you caused the damage (and even that is unlikely to be in your employment contract). Any attempt to do so would give rise to an entitlement to sue for unpaid wages.
Any dismissal on account of refusal to pay, or any attempted unilateral renegotiation of your wages to account for the scales would be or amount to an unfair dismissal, if you pass the threshold criteria, a full list of which is beyond what I’m going to bother including this post, but I suspect most relevantly (as above) you need to have been employed for more than a year.
Posts on significant aspects of this topic by Americans are of limited utility because of their “fire at will” culture and laws.
Yeah, I know, but if no one had said anything about it, someone would have come along asking how the US differed. I was posting merely for comparison, not to actually answer the OP. I probably should have explained as much.
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