That has a Johnny Cochranesque quality to it.
I’m trying to not annoy you folks on the other side quite so much.
Obviously I am not doing it very well.
Honesty doesn’t need my help at all. She is holding it down just fine on her own, and I don’t envy her having to defend this position against the tides.
But I simply must take exception to this statement. She seems to be arguing her point of view honestly. It isn’t fair to say that she is “trying to distract” you.
We understand what ‘reflex’ means to the layperson. But the cop should be held to a higher standard than you and me. If it really were the technical meaning of the word reflex that caused him to punch her, then fine. But if it was the ‘layperson’s’ definition of the word ‘reflex’ then, well…maybe the cop is expected to do better than you or I would. If his training can’t help him to keep control in a situation that mild, then he shouldn’t be a cop.
So when you said you didn’t get fairness, that was supposed to mean…what? That you’re aware that it’s not fair that a cop should get beaten up instead of doing his job, but you’re okay with that because you seem to have an anti cop bias?
That’s an impossible standard. If that were the standard no one would qualify for police work.
I agree.
And now, some comments from A Real Live Black Female Person.
I showed the video to an associate and recorded her comments. I first asked her if a Black kid would be afraid of a White cop.
RLBFM: “I would be afraid of any cop at night, whatever the color.”
(The video begins)
RLBFP: “She is dressed like a prostitute.”
CP: “Say what?” this is interesting. Maybe that is why she is so frightened.
RLBFP:“Well, some girls dress like that…All she has to do is cooperate…but she is so scared.”
She bites the Cop, and he strikes her.
RLBFP:“He shouldn’t have done that. She’s out of it now.”
Cop sprays the girl.
RLBFP:“He didn’t need to do that, that was too much.”
I’m sorry, but I’m not getting what you’re trying to illustrate here. I’ve asked to see some scientific data to support the conclusion that the officer’s punch was somehow an unconscious reflex or “reaction”. You have, instead, posted a video from youtube. While the video tenuously illustrates your point, this entire film could have been made up or acted out. This video as “evidence” doesn’t stack against with the vast amount of documented, controlled data that shows that reflexive response to a painful stimulus to pull the affected limb away from the source of pain. Your video didn’t address the pain aspect at all and, instead, focused on what I’d consider an exaggerated startle reflex.
The video in the OP shows the cop initially withdrawing his hand from the bite. If he was in control of his emotions, he would have used that time to pull out the pepper spray. He didn’t. He hit her right in the face causing her head to slam against the dashboard. His decision to strike was deliberate and calculated; not, as many here are trying to purport, apart of some phantom reflex that is outside the realm of conscious control.
- Honesty
I’m sorry, Larry, I don’t understand. It is impossible for a person to undergo training that would give them a cooler head in situations like the one we saw on the video?
He was not reacting on reflex. Not the technical definition. Honesty cleared that up nicely with some pat cites to back it up.
So, is it impossible to expect a cop to control his reaction better than you and I would when faced with a situation that is not even life threatening, and is not forcing him to react with the technical definition of ‘reflex’?
It’s not fair to hit a fifteen year old girl when she bites you and it hurts like hell.
It’s an Aristotelian concept of fairness. I am naive to expect it to exist.
The Aristotelian Policeman wouldn’t hit her, but alas, nobody is perfect.
Tell your Real Live Black Female Person that she’s just as wrong as you and Honesty.
The cop was being nice, he could have cuffed her in a second because he’s so much stronger than her, he was trying to go easy and didn’t want to break her tiny chicken-wing arms.
If you don’t think the cop reacted to being bitten without thinking, maybe you have horrible reflexes. Do you really consider every action you take?
Do you ponderously decide where to put each foot when walking?
Do you think to yourself, “Say I’m getting punched by a homeless man, perhaps I should raise my left arm and push him away from me. Yes, the left arm will do nicely.”?
That’s insane. What fight is fair? One person is taller, stronger, faster, tougher, has more training, better equipment, faster reflexes, more cunning, a higher pain threshold, has had more sleep, or any number of minutiae. No fight is fair. And arresting someone isn’t a fight! It’s taking a problem off the street to be dealt with by the judicial. Are you daft enough to think that a policeman should throw away his gun when faced with a knife wielding opponent?
Seriously?
Thanks for your honest and heart felt reply.
Here I venture on personal opinion rather than debate, but I submit that most of those individuals who wish to become law enforcement officers are more aggressive by nature than the fellow who becomes a Librarian or engineer.
Cops are human beings and will respond exactly like human beings. I’m not going to get into a semantic quarrel about what “reflex” means. He didn’t throw her to the ground. He didn’t repeatedly punch her. He was startled and reacted, like anyone else. Until Robocop becomes a reality, cops will have–well let’s call them immediate reactions, since apparently only the most hypertechnical definition of instinctive is allowed. You can’t train someone not to be a human being.
But we aren’t quarelling semantics at all. We completely agree on the word, and I am referring to your definition of it here.
I guess I do expect cops to be different from the rest of us “human beings”. Their fault for setting such a high standard. So many of them are willing and able to do what so many of us are not, for all the money in the world. Some of them really are heroes, and I think it is a rare breed that chooses to don that uniform.
And for the record, I think that young girl behaved horribly. If my daughter behaved that way, I would be appalled. But I am not arguing anything other than the fact that the officer shouldn’t have, and didn’t have to, punch her in the face.
I hate to say this next thing I am going to say. I hate to say it, cause I know it will be perceived as ‘playing the race card’. But I feel so compelled to say:
That child probably has a mother or grandmother old enough to remember when it was ok for the cops to hose you, sic dogs on you, beat you, for really nothing more than being black. You know what I’m saying? It was freakin’ legal. I wouldn’t be surprised if the girl had been taught to fear cops. Not to say I excuse her behavior, because I think the behavior was simply stupid, regardless if the cop was straight or crooked. But still…I cannot lie to myself and say that I don’t understand why she might react that way.
You misunderstand. I didn’t mean to imply that it was a fight, I meant to imply that was wrong to strike a fifteen year old girl. Obviously you disagree, and we are wasting each other’s time posting.
No I think that it’s wrong to hit a fifteen year old girl for no reason. Hitting one who’s resisting a lawful arrest and bites you, why I’d say that that calls for sterner measures. The officer did the right thing.
By the way, nice job of insinuating I think it’s okay to beat young girls. I call straw man, ten yard penalty! 
You appear to contradict yourself.
Perhaps I should say “moral” instead of “fair”.
Ok, that’s fine. She freaked out and bit him and he smacked her. He didn’t injure her, she didn’t injure him and the situation was resolved. I guess I don’t see the big deal. I don’t see what’s so horrible about smacking somebody once they’ve bit you. If he had kept punching her I would be on your side. He didn’t. I don’t think she’s the world’s worst person for freaking out and biting the cop, I just don’t think his reaction was bad either, or even noteworthy.
I agree that it certainly could have been worse.
Would you be on our side had he struck her twice?