Could he then put her in a crate unsupervised for 14 hours? I can do that with my dog…
I don’t see why you’re having a hard seeing the parallels here, to be honest.
Cop is trying to restrain a fractious girl. Vet is trying to restrain a factious cat.
Fractious girl bites cop. Fractious cat bites vet.
Cop punches girl in response as a “reflex”. Vet, using his/her superhuman powers, rises above their primal inclinations and magically does not punch the cat in return. Alternate explanation: the vet doesn’t have superhuman powers and simply chooses to respond in a more rational manner that I don’t think is beyond the capabilities of a cop.
All of this:
…is immaterial, if only for the fact that these “could haves” are not in effect. The girl was being restrained and was unarmed except with her teeth. Just like the cat. The amount of control in the two situations is the same. The cop is free to let this viscious girl go at any moment, but he chooses to put himself at risk by trying to restrain her. The vet and the cat is no different. Punching her has nothing to do with whether she could have gone for his gun.
None of this explains why punching someone in this face makes sense. Thanks for the emotional appeal, though.
Working hands on with animals is often times a life or death situation. Not that I’m in that line of work now, mind you. But you really don’t know what you’re talking about if you think a job that puts you in contact with Dobermans, Rotties, and pit bulls (many of which are hopped up on pain and fear) isn’t a health danger. I have to laugh at your ignorant use of “Mr. Mittens”.
It has everything to do with it. The higher standards you want, the more you pay. Taxpayers & citizens get what they pay for and what they get is within pretty acceptable standards.
That’s another thing. Many here expect cops to uphold what is obviously, a debatably high standard of conduct, while apparently 15 year girls aren’t expected to conduct themselves as anything but biting animals. And we wonder why there are curfews, or that curfews are somehow unfair violation of human rights? Please. If your kids aren’t expected to be anything but animals not only do we need curfews, but we might consider leash laws.
Cat weighs 20 lbs vet weighs what 6 times that? Vet has an assistant, or may ask owner for help. Cop was by himself.
Need some additional straw for that man you are building?
I don’t know what you’re arguing about, but I’m arguing against people who I think are going a bit overboard defending the cop.
Have you ever engaged in any form of physical altercation? It’s not the same. You can ignore logic and common sense and repeat that it is the same until they springs on your keyboard wear out. It will not alter the situation.
- The girl is probably 100 times stronger than the cat.
- The girl is thrashing in a manner that a cat can’t.
- The girl has hands that can grab, claw at eyes or reach for a concealed weapon she might have.
- The girl can sue the police department if he pushes to hard and breaks her elbow while cuffing her.
- The girl is black and he’s a big white guy, he could lose his, job, his house, his future if he didn’t handle it in a professional way.
- If he lets go, she might very well get away.
- His life is in danger.
- An intelligent creature went for a potentially lethal (bites could cause all sorts of infectious woes) and did it with malice of forethought.
- He suddenly got bitten and letting go and running away isn’t a real option. He lashes out. If you suddenly got bitten by a dog you’d attack it’s head too. If you didn’t it would be because you have terrible reflexes.
So no, it’s nothing like subduing a cat. And you sound silly for saying it.
And again, have you ever wrestled anyone in a serious fight?
I used it for effect of course, to make you stance seem sillier than it is. Also when you’re working on a dog you have an assistant. Typically the owner is there. The dog is in a strange place and is rightfully intimidated. And the dog as 10,000 years of genetic selection that tells it that people are at the top of the food chain and he should give them the benefit of the doubt.
And you know what, I bet if a doberman bit you on the arm and was thrashing you from side to side bodily, you’d bop him on the snoot.
Have you ever restrained a 20 lbs fractious cat? I’d rather have an 100 lbs Olive Oyl. Honestly. The cat is a lot worse.
I hate to weigh in on the crazy girl vs. fear/pain crazed animal debate, but there is another factor that has been overlooked in my opinion. As a former vet tech and feral cat trapper, I was very well aware that my charges were equipped with teeth and possibly claws and had no reservations about using them. I doubt the cop was thinking “I’m dealing with a wild animal here - she might bite me.” Children usually know well before the age of 15 that biting is not an acceptable action.
Should he have hit her? No. Should she have bit him? No. Should he have just continued to let her bite him, or have twisted her arms until they broke? No.
No one was right here; it’s a lose-lose situation. However, I still say the girl brought it on herself - she was resisting arrest and didn’t give the officer much choice.
That’s not going to get my respect; hard-hitting arguments do. “Mr. Mittens” will scratch your eye and not shed one tear over it. The cutesy names don’t change that.
Not all the time. I’ve restrained dogs who weigh almost more than I do, by myself. You guys need to get in a animal clinic more often.
Did the girl thrash the cop from side to side bodily? Because if she did, I’d join you in defending his punch.
Your vet anology is waaay off base. Its not like we have accepted behaviorable norms under arrest circumstances for cats. At 15, you should be well aware that your misbehaviors can have legal ramifications that can result in arrest. Fighting such an arrest is not only illegal, but usually futile.
If we have not learned not to bite by 15…well I guess we should blame the schools? Bush? Terrorists?
I still say that hit was still pretty tame, I have hit far harder breaking up fights and cuffing even though submission holds and pressure were my weapon of choice. Getting them to a point where you could apply them often involved a hit or two.
I don’t think you’ve ever had to carry a certain seven year old niece who, unlike the other 10,000 times she’s been threatened with it, is actually going to have to go to her room for the first real timeout she’s ever had in her life, without wheeling and dealing her way out of it.
I’ll take the 20lb cat over a screaming, fighting, hitting seven year old girl who has decided she is going to stand her ground and fight to the death over this one, anytime.
She didn’t bite me though. Even at a spoiled seven years old and hysterical, she’d learned better than that.
I’m honestly confused on what this has to do with anything. Whether an animal or a 15 year old girl knows the difference between right and wrong seems to be a seperate issue from whether its okay that a cop punches someone in retaliation to being bit. So you failed to show how my analogy is waaaay off nothing.
Goal post moving gets on my nerves. I came into this thread to contest the idea that the cop was acting out of self-preservatory instinct. Now, it seems I’m having to field a new line of arguments, that of the “animals don’t know any better; teenaged girls do!” Problem is, this argument is sillier than the first one. That a person being arrested knows that biting is wrong doesn’t mean that a cop should respond with mindless violence after being bit.
Have you ever restrained a 100 lb person?
If put in a caged death match, would you really choose a 100 pound person over a 20 lb cat? Do you really think in any semblance of a straight up fight that the 100 lb person could not absolutley dominate the cat 1/5th of their size? I can pick up your damned heavy cat with one hand! The teenager could punt it across the room!
My dog is not easy to restrain when getting her nails clipped, but the rediculousness of your comment shows that you’ve never even tried to restrain a small child, let alone someone nearly full grown.
I was thinking of the second definition here, rather than “innate.” For the purposes of this thread, I am content with “automatic,” or “without conscious thought.”
IMO, he reacted automatically. He was in a fight, he jut got bit, and he punched her. Such things really do happen in fighting situations.
I’ve seen people recounting a story slap mosquitos and never slow down. The slap happens way too fast for a conscious decision to have been made. We can argue about whether “cognition” is involved, but no one is arguing that such a blow is an involuntary reflex on the order of breathing, or blinking, or even withdrawing from extreme heat. That does not make it a choice, however.
Trust me. No you don’t. I’ve been around enough spoiled children to know that they are no match to a semi-wild animal with fangs, claws, and zero conscience.
We’re talking about that girl in the video, right? With the toothpick arms and the bad hair? I’d wrestle her in heartbeat if the alternative is a equally angry cat. And I’m only 130 lbs.
I can’t imagine why anyone who has worked extensively with cats and dogs would find that girl to be more scarier. But never mind that. Are yall really trying to tell me that cop should have found her terrifying? I must be watching a different tape than yall are.
I don’t think it was necessarily mindless violence. Picturing myself in that scenario, I would think that a quick, sharp pop to the head would be the most likely way of trying to stun and intimidate the biter in an effort to keep myself from being bitten again. I also think he pulled his punch considerably, whereas someone acting out of mindless violence would be likely to hit much harder and to deliver more than just one blow.
No, just that you appear ignorant of the fact that a 100 lb human is more a threat to life and limb than a 20 lb. cat.
Has a cat ever gone for your gun?