SDMB Attorneys -- do you like your job?

In My Humble Opinion
1

As noted in other threads, I’m currently attempting to answer (at age 30) the eternal question of, “What do I want to be when I grow up?” One potential path is law school – I’m an engineer by training and I believe that the analytical and organizational skills I’ve gained in the field would translate well over to the practice of law.

The main reasons I want to switch careers is not necessarily money or prestige, but to find something that matches my interests and skills, and is also interesting and fulfilling. My question for the resident attorneys is – do you like your job? Do you feel fulfilled in what you do? What kind of stress level do you operate under? What do you like and not like about the practice of law?

I’d definitely appreciate any input y’all can provide. Thanks, as always!

2

I have a PhD in Materials Engineering, and I am a practicing patent lawyer. I love my work. What’s more, of all the patent lawyers I know, I can only think of one who doesn’t love what he does. That’s an unheard of degree of job satisfaction for lawyers.

Stress level is moderately high, but not outrageous - I usually know well in advance when the bad times are going to be, so I can plan my life accordingly. You do have to be good at juggling many deadlines and many simultaneous projects. And if you don’t like to write, forget it. I think the ideal patent lawyer is a technically inclined grammar geek who enjoys teaching.

If you’re interested in patent law, I recommend that you consider trying to be hired as a technical specialist at a firm first. Often, the firm will pay your way through law school (with varied requirements about how many hours you have to bill while in school, and/or how long you have to stay with the firm after you graduate).

If you’re interested in something other than patent, you’ll probably have to go to law school first, then find a job. Law school is very different from engineering - it’s quite the culture shock. (Warning - get someone to explain the phrase “state your assumptions” as applied to law school exams. I learned the hard way that it doesn’t mean the same thing it means on physics exams).

If you don’t go the technology specialist route, you can also try to get hired as a paralegal or even a legal secretary. This isn’t that much like being a lawyer, but it does allow you to observe lawyers in their “natural habitat”, and may give you an idea of whether you’d like to be one.

3

Sometimes I love it. Many times I hate it. It’s one of the most demanding careers out there in terms of stress levels and hours worked.

My advice to all people considering law school is to try to work with some practicing attorneys before you even take the LSAT. Be a paralegal, or a legal secretary, or get an internship, or something. Because until you see it up close and personal, you have no idea what it’s really going to be like.

The biggest shock for many people: TV lawyers sit around and talk, talk, talk all the time about their cases with their colleagues. But I practice corporate law in a big firm, and trust me, most of my time is spent in front of a computer, writing and researching. This is one of the most demoralizing aspects of the job (at least among my new attorney friends).

Do not just assume that your analytical and organizational skills will make being an attorney the ideal job for you. Please, for your sake, consider all the downsides to attorney life–and there are many–and determine whether or not they’re things you can live with.

Can you handle never having a predictable schedule? Can your family handle it?

Can you handle rarely being able to leave the office at 5 p.m.?

Can you handle 10-12 hour days being average (or even light) work days?

Can you handle spending those 10-12 hour work days in front of a computer with little or no human interaction?

Can you handle dealing with people who are argumentative, uncooperative, and often self-important?

Can you handle knowing that you will be expected to spend a significant chunk of your weekend time working?

Are you good at managing your own time and juggling several projects and deadlines at once, often with little help or guidance?

Do you have a tolerance for astronomically high levels of tedium? A gift for focusing on minutiae?

Can you handle accepting large amounts of criticism from your senior peers?

All these aspects of the job have come as a surprise or been tough for new-ish lawyers like me (one year out of law school). Wish I’d thought of them before I’d decided on law as a career. While I like my job O.K., I know now that I would be happier with something less demanding and stressful.

Furthermore, law school is an expensive mistake to make if you realize later that you don’t want to be a lawyer. Most young lawyers I know have between $50-100K in debt.

I hope you really consider this decision seriously. A very common mistake is for smart people to go to law school as a default. I hope you will not fall into this trap.

Good luck.

4

Thanks, guys, for the honest advice. I know there are a lot of upsides to practicing law – prestige and good dough being two of them. But honestly, at this point in my life, money is only semi-important. The most important thing to me will be enjoying what I do and being interested in my work. And I definitely appreciate hearing the downsides, as those of us not currently in the law field don’t really hear about the downsides much. And honestly, the thought of 10-12 hour days and weekend work doesn’t appeal to me – hopefully in the next couple of years, I’ll be looking at a family life with wife and kiddles, and I’d rather spend my time with them than at work.

5

The thing about the “great money” isn’t even necessarily the case. I spend at least $1500 of my net take home pay every month on paying off law school debts. This will continue for another 10 years. Plus, I have expenses that I wouldn’t have with a lot of other jobs (a closet full of nice suits, a cleaning lady and an apartment close to work to avoid wasting my free time on commuting and cleaning, lots of eating out on nights I’m stuck at work). Plus, fully 33% of my pay is taken in taxes.

When I add it all up, I would have been just as well off if I’d skipped grad school and gotten a job just out of college. And I’m paid the top salary in my legal market.

6

Hey Zanshin you hottie you!

As far as liking what you do, you’d have to tell me what kind of law you want to get into…

I’m a litigator…most attorneys I know well in litigation (1-10 yrs experience) hate their jobs…

I would recommend working at a law firm doing the kind of law you think you might be interested in…it will truly open your eyes.

7

My job pays well enough to support a very comfortable lifestyle. Moreover, working for the federal government involves far less stress IMO and more reasonable hours than private practice. I worked for a private firm in the past. Corp work is between the 2. My wife was a corp lawyer. She now teaches business law.

I personally derive absolutely no personal enjoyment or satisfaction from the performance of my job, other than the regular and sufficient paycheck. You should be able to google up studies showing a pretty high level of dissatisfaction among recent bar admittees.

I generally recommend against people going into law, unless for some reason they feel strongly that the study and practice of law will excite them. IMO, law school is not much fun, and it is expensive and long. Further, when you get out, there is no guarantee that you will be hired to practice the type of law you would like to practice. Moreover, much of law is not exactly glamorous - research, writing, and telephone calls. Billing and dealing with clients can be unpleasant.

I would strongly recommend that if you are considering a career change, to try to identify something that really excites you personally, and then try to figure out how to make a decent living related to that.

And I don’t buy into the “you can do so much with a law degree” camp. I don’t understand why it wouldn’t be better to identify the something other than law that you want to pursue, and get trained in that.

You’ve got my number, buddy. Give me a call.

8

<blush> You always say the nicest things. </blush>

My initial thoughts were either environmental or IP law. And Dinsdale, will do.

9

I love my job! I’m a labor lawyer working for a union and it is my dream job. I don’t go to court, but I do two or three arbitrations a month, ( okay, one usually settles, but often not until all the prep work is done) so case prep is an on-going process. I have lots of interaction with people because organizers often drop by to ask for advice, and I need to talk to the lawyers on the other side fairly often.

I usually work 45 hours a week, sometimes more, but I almost always know when a crunch time is coming. Yes, sometimes the grievants (think client) is difficult or needy–I’ve been yelled at and lied to and had my advice ignored and then blamed for the bad outcome, but lots of my grievants are very grateful for my help and they really were treated unfairly.

It’s not just what specialty of law you practice, the size and location of the law firm/business/non-profit can also make a big difference in how you live your life. Big firm in a big city–you’ll probably spend a few years doing research or other lawyers, small firm, small city–you may well have a client all your own before the end of the first day. Government or non-profit–you’re pay will be less (but maybe better benefits), but job satisfaction may be high.

And finally, I have to agree with ENugent, I’ve met 4 patent lawyers and they all loved their work.

10

Paging jeevmon… I hope you’re not too busy for a vanity search!

I also disagree that paralegal work doesn’t give you a good idea of what lawyers do. This is something that varies a LOT from firm to firm and among various areas of law. I don’t know about IP, but in our firm the paralegals do most of the same work that attorneys do (at least the non-senior attorneys). I imagine the same is true of other areas of law that involve practice before government administrative bodies rather than litigation. But yes, expect LOTS of writing.

11

Hmmm… Chime me in as a Me Too!

worked as a paralegal in a law firm for 5 years (I know now what kind of law I DON’T want to practice)

I don’t have THAT predictable of a schedule now, don’t have a family either, often am at the office for a 10 hour day

Spend 9.5 hours in front of a computer, dealing with mundane sales crap

I myself am often argumentative and self important I forget what the other questions were.

I’m thinking I should go into law because I’m reasonably bright, I’m very good with words, I like writing, I’m used to writing (I have a history background) I like complex problem solving of the mathematical word problem variety. I like being nitpicky about language and various implications of word usage. I think I do okay at thinking about concepts with regard to the structure of existing law as opposed to how people think the law should be. I like to be right whenever I’m spouting off on some topic, so I’ve grown used to being careful with my discussions. And lastly, I like the idea of helping people solve their problems, albeit at arm’s length.

So… if its the case that I might be a reasonable candidate for law school (I do worry about age and gender bias as I’m a 34 year old female), how does one start evaluating law schools in order to find a good fit?

12

White Ink, I went to law school as a 32 year old female and it was the best decision I ever made.

Although all law schools teach a basic curricula (i.e. all the typical bar exam subjects), some schools do have a reputation for a particular type of law. My alma mater Northwestern School of Law at Lewis and Clark, in Portland Oregon has an excellent environmental law program, but it is also strong in both business/tax law and employment/labor law. It is also a smaller school with a non-competitive bias–they only accept students they believe will pass, so there’s none of the “look to your right, look to your left, one you won’t be here in three years” stuff.

Better than going on what type of law you may practice is to think about where you may want to practice law. Unless you go to one of the big name schools, going to school in the region you want to practice is a good idea–you’ll run into more alumni during your job search.

You should be able to find statistics on class size, age of students, and various diversity stuff on school website or a guidebook. Lewis and Clark (to use an example close to my heart) has a high percentage of older students, in part because it has a night program designed for people who are working full time.If you can take the time to visit a few places, that could help you get the feel of the place.

Good luck to you if you do decide to go (and the rest of you, too). You can e-mail me if you want more info from my point of view.

13

White Ink, I went to law school as a 32 year old female and it was the best decision I ever made.

Although all law schools teach a basic curricula (i.e. all the typical bar exam subjects), some schools do have a reputation for a particular type of law. My alma mater Northwestern School of Law at Lewis and Clark, in Portland Oregon has an excellent environmental law program, but it is also strong in both business/tax law and employment/labor law. It is also a smaller school with a non-competitive bias–they only accept students they believe will pass, so there’s none of the “look to your right, look to your left, one you won’t be here in three years” stuff.

Better than going on what type of law you may practice is to think about where you may want to practice law. Unless you go to one of the big name schools, going to school in the region you want to practice is a good idea–you’ll run into more alumni during your job search.

You should be able to find statistics on class size, age of students, and various diversity stuff on school website or a guidebook. Lewis and Clark (to use an example close to my heart) has a high percentage of older students, in part because it has a night program designed for people who are working full time.If you can take the time to visit a few places, that could help you get the feel of the place.

Good luck to you if you do decide to go (and the rest of you, too). You can e-mail me if you want more info from my point of view.

14

OK. This has always confused me.

Why? Are ALL private law firm like this? Surely SOME law firms have managing partners who like to have a life and would allow their younger associates to have one? Is this just the stereotype for big city lawyers in high powered firms?

15

I am a rural county seat general practioner. I’ve been at it since 1972 with five years as an Army JAG before that. I love it. My friends and colleagues are talking about how they look forward to retirement. Some have already retired. I’m having too much fun to retire.

At first it is a terrible grind. Long hours at work. Lousy cash flow. Horses ass cases and court appointments. After a while you find that you don’t have to put in 12 hours a day. You don’t have to represent every jack-ass that comes in the door to keep food on the table and send the kids to college and meet your payroll, and pay the taxes. After a while you can just work for people you like and for people who are being screwed over that you can help. You can restrict your practice to the stuff you like to do and that you are good at. You develop a reputation. If it is a good reputation your colleagues ask your advice and refer work. You get to pack up and go home in the evening and spend time with your empty nest spouse, and maybe take a nice vacation once in a while.

I can’t imagine a life that I would enjoy more or find more satisfying. It’s not a life for everybody but I sure like it.

16

Recent law grad here. I’m twiddling my thumbs waiting for my bar results to come in. Well, actually, I’m doing work for a lawyer friend of mine who actually gave me summer employment two years in a row.

Now, from my perspective, I’m doing fine. He gives me briefs to work on which only take a few hours a day–not bad for somebody who’s in slackoff mode at the moment.

He, however, is a solo practitioner, and I can see that it takes a heavy toll on him. Case in point: he’s busy preparing for a big trial, and his opponents have served him with 15 motions in limine in the last 3 days. This, of course, means he can’t prepare for trial, because he’s too busy writing reply briefs (many of which are in response to crap arguments). If he were in a big firm, I’m sure he’d be able to delegate the work to some young associate or 3L intern. As it is, he’s got my help, but nor much beyond that. Oh, and his wife is giving birth tomorrow.

I can see that the solo life takes its toll on him, and it tends to be more of a financial drain than a source of income. On the other hand, I suspect that he’d be unhappy working for anybody else: it’s his business, he doesn’t answer to anyone, and he can do the kind of work he wants to. Plus, he’s got a substantial network of colleagues whom he shares cases and information with (as opposed to a big firm, where someone might have a lot of co-workers, but few friends). It’s hard, but I’d wager he’s happy.

BTW, I’m most likely going into the Air Force JAG in a few months, so I can give some insight into that when I get there.

17

I have a slightly different perspective, because I just changed fields within the law, but am continuing to practice.

I’m a government lawyer, currently working for a large county in one state, formerly employed with the AG’s office in another, with a brief, disastrous stop at insurance defense in a big city private firm in between the two. (Interestingly, the county I work for has a population that exceeds that of the state I moved from, and the county attorney’s office I work for is larger than the AG’s office back home.)

I used to do mostly torts work (litigation), now I do mostly land-use and adminstrative law stuff – because a day without zoning is like a day without sunshine.

Nah, seriously, I really like my job. I wouldn’t say I love it, like I leap out of bed every morning at think “Hurray! Today I get to go to work!” but I like it a lot. I guess I’d rate my job satisfaction as “high.” I was hired because I have courtroom and hearing experience, but so far, though I’ve been to a hearing or two, I haven’t been back to court. And I have been pleasantly surprised: Land use is actually more interesting than I thought it would be (at least I’m finding it so), and I do not miss the high pressure of litigation at all, and I kind of thought I would. (Though it looks like I may be drifting back to litigation, because I have more experience than several of the younger lawyers in the torts division, and so they’re bringing me in on some of those cases.)

I had the big city law firm job, and I hated it. Long hours, ridiculous billing requirements, dog-eat-dog atmosphere, crap cases, clients I didn’t give a shit about (insurance companies), an exploitive firm environment – it was A Bad Time In The Life Of Jodi. I missed working for a client I believed in, doing work that meant something to someone with an actual pulse as opposed to just a bottom line, feeling like I was being of some small service to my community, not being stressed out all the time – all the things I got from being a government lawyer. I got sucked into private practice for the money, and what I found was that, for me, money wasn’t enough.

So I quit. I was unemployed for about five months early this year and then hired by the county. Now I’m happy as a pig in garbage. Less money, but more time, satisfaction, and self-respect. I’m at my desk by 8:30, I leave around 5:30, I track my billables for productivity reasons but have no billable hours requirements, so far (in six months) I’ve worked a grand total of one weekend day. (At my old job, I was in the office every weekend, sometimes both days.) So money isn’t everything.

I think the law is a fine career if: You like to argue, you’re fairly analytical, you’re reasonably articulate, you like to read and write, you’re willing to work hard (law school is a total grind), you have a fairly high degree of self-confidence, and you don’t stress out easily. I think it’s a bad career choice if you’re looking to make pots of money or you think the practice of law is just what you see on TV.

But in your case – If I were an engineer thinking about law school, I’d definitely check out patent law. It’s a very esoteric, specialized area of the law that I would never in a million years be qualified to pursue, but I too have heard that the people who do it really like it. And it can pay very well, because admittance to the patent bar is a tough credential to get.

But I’d talk to a lot of people, think about what kind of law might interest you, do a lot of reading, and check out some law schools before I made a decision. I’d also think seriously about how ready I really was to return to school full-time after eight or ten years out. Whatever you decide – Good luck! :slight_smile:

18

Wow…this has been a MOST informative thread for me. I’m currently a junior in college, double-majoring in Law/Society and Business/Economics. My plan has always been to go to Law School, however I’ve always worried that I would not like the profession once I get there. I will be interning at my local DA’s office this next quarter, so that will provide me some more insight about “the life”. I hear so many horror stories from my professors about people they know (including themselves) who absolutely abhored the profession, etc. Its nice to hear of some who dont.

Anyways, how important do you think the law school you go to is to what kind of job you get? Any suggestions for a kid getting ready to take the LSATs and compile a list of Law Schools to apply to?

19

I have a great job. Plus, I thought law school was a lot of fun. I go to court on a regular basis, with interesting work, but not so much that it becomes the grind. The work’s interesting, and my colleagues are great. And yes, we spend time chatting about law, kids, home life, how the Riders did last week (not great :frowning: ). It’s just not the case that I spend the entire work day staring at the computer screen. (That’s for when I come home and log on to the SDMB! :smiley: ) One of my colleagues is up for retirement in a few years, and isn’t really excited by it, because he loves the work and the colleagues so much.

Put simply, my experience just doesn’t match Q.N. Jones or Dinsdale’s. Different life paths, I guess. At the same time, I do know lawyers who feel trapped, work really long hours without enjoying it, and so on. The best advice I can give is look around a lot before you settle on what type of practice you want. One of my beefs with law schools is that they seem to reflexively assume that the only model is private practice, and everything else is sort of “other.” That in turn means that students tend to come out of law school with the same assumption and head for the big firms without stopping to ask hard questions about whether that fits their life style and career goals. (I’ve heard of big firm that are quite frank at the interviews: if you work there, priorities are: client; firm; family.)

So, look around before you settle down.

20

I go to law school now. I’m an part time evening student who works full time. If you really want to prepare yourself for the rigors of working for a big law firm, I’ve heard that doing it this way is bootcamp for your body,mind and soul.

I’m getting my MLS at the same time. I want to be a law librarian very badly. I’ve heard they make a nice living without all the crazy hours.