Eddie Collins
Frankie Frisch
Charlie Gehringer
Rogers Hornsby
Nap Lajoie
Joe Morgan
Jackie Robinson
Ryne Sandberg
Red Schoendienst
Rod Carew
This was much easier than the 1Bs in my book.
Frankie Frisch
Charlie Gehringer
Billy Herman
Rogers Hornsby
Nap Lajoie
Tony Lazzeri
Joe Morgan
Jackie Robinson
Ryne Sandberg
Rod Carew
Rogers Hornsby
Joe Morgan
Jackie Robinson
Ryne Sandberg
Rod Carew (recieved 10 votes in 1st basemen ballot; not elected there)
Roberto Alomar
Craig Biggio
Jeff Kent
Lou Whitaker
Bobby Grich
My own ballot:
Eddie Collins
Joe Morgan
Roberto Alomar
Craig Biggio
Jackie Robinson
Charlie Gehringer
Rogers Hornsby
Napoleon Lajoie
Frankie Frisch
Ryne Sandberg
This was a very, very tough ballot to make out.
[QUOTE=Windwalker]
I think it may have been interesting to allow people to vote X instead of a full ten players, allowing them in effect to cast a ballot for a Small Hall (if X ranks in the top 10, then only the top 9 are entered; if there are enough X’s to rank in the top 10 twice, then only the top 8 are entered, etc.)
That said, here’s my vote:
Robert Alomar
Craig Biggio
Rod Carew
Eddie Collins
Charlie Gehringer
Roger Hornsby
Nap Lajoie
Joe Morgan
Jackie Robinson
Ryne Sandberg
I guess I’m an offense whore, since I don’t really know how to evaluate defense very well, especially of players I’ve never seen.
I expected Hornsby, Jackie R. and Morgan to be on every ballot, so I’m surprised that you left Jackie out, gonzomax. Was his career too short, or is he not 2B enough? Even without breaking the color barrier, a career .311/.409/.474 is awesome for the era he played in.
[/QUOTE]
Too short. His accumulated stats fall short. But Carew won the 2nd most batting titles to Cobb. That is domination. Hornsby is above them all. I thought they would be on every ballot.
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Well that is fair, I remember Alomar from his Toronto, Baltimore and Cleveland days and then his Met misery.
[/QUOTE]
I doubt most fans outside of New York even remember, without thinking about it, that he was ever a Met. How strange people are judging him based on a year and a half in Queens (and he wasn’t awful.) It’s like judging Hank Aaron based on his performance for the Brewers.
I’ll tell you this; Alomar was the best player on a team that won back to back World Series titles and you can’t say that about too many guys.
[QUOTE=RickJay]
he wasn’t awful
[/QUOTE]
We could discuss your standards for awfulness.
Here’s his stats: Roberto Alomar Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com
If you’re defining “awfulness” as not deserving of a major league job with any team, then I’d agree.
But I define it as “at or below replacement level,” which I think he was for the final 245 games (in three seasons), especially since he came to Queens off an MVP-level season, and we were expecting someone who could play well, or at least better than average. He couldn’t, and he insisted on the props of someone playing at superstar levels.
I know it’s a small, and unrepresentative, slice of his career, but I hate him, I hate what he represents, I hate his surly entitled attitude, and I loved shipping his ass to the poor White Sox.
[QUOTE=RickJay]
I doubt most fans outside of New York even remember, without thinking about it, that he was ever a Met. How strange people are judging him based on a year and a half in Queens (and he wasn’t awful.) It’s like judging Hank Aaron based on his performance for the Brewers.
I’ll tell you this; Alomar was the best player on a team that won back to back World Series titles and you can’t say that about too many guys.
[/QUOTE]
Agreed, I honestly thought he would end up being the best I ever saw, but he faded fast and I am not so sure now. I might have to give that to Morgan. (No matter how much I hate him as an announcer.)
I noticed you passed on Carew, but you voted for him at first I think. Are you being intentionally honest by not voting for him in two positions or did you think he just did not make the cut at second?
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Are you going purely by the numbers?
[/quote]
Mostly, and length of career. I’ll have to think hard about Koufax too. 
Robinsons’s numbers needed to be overwhelming to make up for the shortness of his career, and - while excellent - they’re not overwhelming. I’d possibly vote for him in an at-large round, but it looks like he’ll get in on this one.
For the Congressional Medal of Honor, sure.
Eddie Collins
Jackie Robinson
Rogers Hornsby
Nap Lajoie
Joe Morgan
Frank Frisch
Charlie Gehringer
Rod Carew
Ryne Sandberg
Nellie Fox
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
I noticed you passed on Carew, but you voted for him at first I think. Are you being intentionally honest by not voting for him in two positions or did you think he just did not make the cut at second?
[/QUOTE]
Honesty.
Is Larry Doby going to get special consideration for breaking the color barrier in the AL.?
Johnny Evers
Nellie Fox
Rogers Hornsby
Nap Lajoie
Bill Mazeroski
Joe Morgan
Jackie Robinson
Ryne Sandberg
Craig Biggio
Lou Whitaker
[QUOTE=gonzomax]
Is Larry Doby going to get special consideration for breaking the color barrier in the AL.?
[/QUOTE]
That is up to the voters, gonzo.
Doby was an outfielder, so it’ll be decided then.
There’s another thread for general discussion of the SDMB Hall of Fame series of threads.
What works against Doby is that 2nd Base is usually a weaker offensive position than OF ones, and Robinson’s numbers are pretty comparable (Jackie got on base significantly more than Larry, with less power). Of course, Robinson moved around the field a bit, which complicates matters.
Eddie Collins
Charlie Gehringer
Rogers Hornsby
Nap Lajoie
Joe Morgan
Jackie Robinson
Ryne Sandberg
Rod Carew (recieved 10 votes in 1st basemen ballot; not elected there)
Roberto Alomar
Lou Whitaker
If loving Ryne Sandberg is wrong I don’t wanna be right, baby.
[QUOTE=RickJay]
I’ll tell you this; Alomar was the best player on a team that won back to back World Series titles and you can’t say that about too many guys.
[/QUOTE]
One of the reasons Sandberg is so impressive is not just the stats (though for the 1980s they’re eye-popping for his position) but the fact that he led to fundamentally flawed teams (the '84 and '89 Cubs) to division titles. Alomar, while a damn fine player on those Blue Jay teams, had greatness around him.
92,93 Blue Jays
Olerud
Carter
Winfield
Morris
Guzman
Henke
Ward
Molitor
Hentgen
84, 89 Cubs
Cey
Matthews
1/2 of Sutcliffe
Grace
Dawson (.307 OBP that year! Oy!)
Maddux
Williams
Bielecki
Sandberg had much weaker teammates with which to play. There’s a deep difference in the quality of talent both had to work with to get to the playoffs.
[QUOTE=Jonathan Chance]
Sandberg had much weaker teammates with which to play. There’s a deep difference in the quality of talent both had to work with to get to the playoffs.
[/QUOTE]
This argument relies on utterly unquantifiable stuff to mean anything at all. It’s the argument that people put forth when they’ve got very little, and I mistrust it deeply. It means that Billy Williams, Ron Santo, Ernie Banks, Fergie Jenkins, Randy Hundley, et al. had horrible (negative, essentially) leadership skills, in that they were unable to lead their teams to any post-season play despite stellar teammates, and I don’t buy it for a second.
Players are as good as they are. No one makes anyone better, or worse. You can take any weak playoff team, isolate its best player, and make him into a baseball God by this standard, when every fact you can find tells you that another player on a non-playoff team that season had a superior season to his.
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber]
This argument relies on utterly unquantifiable stuff to mean anything at all. It’s the argument that people put forth when they’ve got very little, and I mistrust it deeply. It means that Billy Williams, Ron Santo, Ernie Banks, Fergie Jenkins, Randy Hundley, et al. had horrible (negative, essentially) leadership skills, in that they were unable to lead their teams to any post-season play despite stellar teammates, and I don’t buy it for a second.
Players are as good as they are. No one makes anyone better, or worse. You can take any weak playoff team, isolate its best player, and make him into a baseball God by this standard, when every fact you can find tells you that another player on a non-playoff team that season had a superior season to his.
[/QUOTE]
I think the team leading aspect works much better in a game like basketball, where you have so many more interactions per minute with your teammates. There, a case can legitimately made that you’re somewhat of an engineer of your team’s success, whereas it doesn’t make as much sense in baseball (it still does, to some extent, but the effect is clearly lessened).
Here’s mine:
Eddie Collins
Rogers Hornsby
Joe Morgan
Nap Lajoie
Charlie Gehringer
Bobby Grich
Craig Biggio
Ryne Sandberg
Jackie Robinson
Rod Carew
Hate to leave out Alomar, Barnes, and Frisch (although I hold the whole Veteran’s Committee fiasco against ol’ Frankie, so I’m pretty okay with that omission).