I don’t see how. It only measures how many fans are aware of the chart, think it’s accurate and universally meaningful, and how concerned GMs are about the appearance to the fans of their actions, rather than the actual utility value of their actions.
. . . and we’re up to 12, with the addition of The Mad Hermit, a seven year veteran of the keeper league. It’s possible we’ll need an alternate, so those who expressed an interest but didn’t get in will be kept in mind. I do apologize.
Is it worth it to try and get info from everybody in order to organize the divisions according to some rationale? I kinda like the idea of splitting us up according to region, but I don’t want to hassle people to post minutia. Could go by Join Date or Post Count.
I like the idea of having something - anything - giving the divisions some sort of theme or familiarity. Even if it’s “I particularly enjoy kicking this person’s ass, please put us together”.
Or it could be by past league affiliation, I guess location could work, maybe experience levels…
We could do the “people who actually talk” divsion with Me, Varlos, Ellis Dee and … hmmmm… RNATB?
But that wouldn’t be fair, since you guys all suck.
Sorry, just getting in some practice for the season.
I need to do a statistical analysis of the results of every SDMB league ever ran so that I can mathematically prove I’m the best around. I already did it for the all-pro league.
If so, you should go by points scored instead of W-L record, so I get credit for the 2007 He Hate Me season, in which I finished 1st in total points (by a lot), but 8th (8th!) in the standings (not counting the consolation bracket, which I won).
I’m going to be reminding people about that for as long as there’s a Straight Dope.
Ellis Dee scored the 2nd most points in the all pro league last year and didn’t even make the playoffs.
hehe.
Edit: and that’s with a 6 team playoffs!
Hmm… No Use for a Name with the third highest score total went 5 wins 8 losses for 10th overall. I, with the second fewest points, was third seed. That’s pretty nuts.
Yes, exactly.
Exactly. That’s what value is. That’s why a worthless piece of paper can be exchanged for goods and services. The only value currency has – and draft picks are currency – is what people agree they have. And people agree that draft picks have the value described by the chart, just like people agree that a $20 bill is worth $20.
The value chart is arbitrary and out of date, but it doesn’t matter because people agree that its values are true. If coaches don’t agree those values are correct and start making deals contrary to the chart, then I’d agree that the chart isn’t particularly meaningful. By contrast, if coaches don’t agree with the chart but use it in their trades anyway, that’s strong evidence that the street value of draft picks is accurately measured by the chart.
If a new and completely different chart is created and everyone agrees it’s better and they start using that, then that new chart becomes the real measure of draft pick value. But until that happens, the current chart literally is the real measure of draft pick value.
I’m not claiming that the fantasy chart has anywhere near the acceptance of the NFL chart, but as far as I’m aware there is no other fantasy chart. That makes the one we have infinitely better to the alternative, since the only alternate is having each individual make up whatever values they like.
Yeah, I had a stretch there where I kept scoring the second most points in the league each week but had the bad luck of playing the only team to score more points. I think that happened three weeks in a row.
My point was that the value should be whatever the GMs see it to be, not what the fans think it should be. But because fan rage threatens a GM’s job, he may appease the fanbase at the cost of actually doing the right thing for his team. It’s chickenshit, but it’s often how NFL GMs and coaches work. In coaching you see this with coaches rarely going for it on 4th down even when statistically it’s a good idea - they don’t want to accept the blame should it fail, because the fans are results-oriented idiots. Similarly here, the GM’s freedom is handicapped by fans demanding that they get “proper value” according to the chart.
I mean - since that chart was made, we’ve seen the addition of a salary cap, and top picks that merit gigantic contracts that take up a significant portion of the salary cap. It’s only logical that the value of the top picks would have dropped since then, meaning that the chart is outdated and inaccurate.
I understand and agree with that. What I’m saying is that because GMs use the chart, the chart accurately reflects the real trade value of draft picks. By definition.
I think, in effect, it has chilled early draft pick trading because GMs feel like they can’t trade out of a high pick without getting proper value as perceived by the fans, but at the same time GMs who’d want to trade up into the top 10 know that the picks aren’t worth as much as the chart suggests, so the result is that trades don’t happen much in this area.
The Jets traded up to 5 to get Sanchez. And didn’t your Browns successfully trade down out of the top 10 last season, or was that the Patriots? I know somebody traded down like three times, out of the first round altogether.
That was the Patriots. The Jets did trade for the #5, but they did it primarily by packaging players (which don’t fit neatly into the value chart) so I’m not sure it’s a good counterexample.
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but I do think it may be more rare than it otherwise would be if that value chart was never released to the public.
Good point on Sanchez. For some reason I was sure that they also sent next year’s first rounder, but nope. Looks like they only gave up a second rounder (after swapping first rounders) and three players that Mangini had extensive knowledge of.
IIRC, the Patriots stockpiled picks in their trades down. I can’t sit here and say they followed the chart with those trades since I don’t know the particulars, but it would be a decent set of trades to use as evidence for either side of the discussion.
Unless they also included future picks, which is another way to bypass the chart when making deals.
Our league’s roster, sorted by Join Date, with Posts and Posts Per Day. Just in case no other method of sorting divisions proves feasible. It’s surprising to me that we don’t have anyone who joined the board in the last four years.
(It’s possible I made an error somewhere – does anyone see a mistake in the roster / team names?)
Player (Team) … Join Date … Posts … Posts/Day
furt (Fightin’ Quakers) … 4/30/99 – 6,182 – 1.64
Hamlet (CuteWiddleBunny) … 2/4/00 – 5,678 – 1.63
VarlosZ (Varlos’ Zzzzzzz) … 5/9/00 – 3,151 – 0.93
SenorBeef (Exploding Pancakes) … 8/25/01 – 8,369 – 2.86
Petey (Isotopes) … 9/16/01 – 268 – 0.09
The Mad Hermit (Deliverance) … 9/20/01 – 1,856 – 0.64
Stringer (We Do HGH) … 6/13/02 – 650 – 0.25
Justin_Bailey (The Gusterrhoids) … 3/7/03 – 6,291 – 2.66
RNATB (9 Inch Neils) … 5/24/03 – 19,581 – 8.56
Ellis Dee (New York Fanboys) … 7/28/03 – 5,968 – 2.69
dalej42 (Warner’s Brothers) … 2/21/04 – 5,726 – 2.84
RetroVertigo (RetroVertigo) … 8/23/05 – 485 – 0.33
Thanks for bringing it back up. I had just let go. 
Sorry if that last post messed up any division-making tiebreakers.
If we wanted to go by posting frequency I suppose it would be:
Lurkers
Petey (Isotopes) … 9/16/01 – 268 – 0.09
Stringer (We Do HGH) … 6/13/02 – 650 – 0.25
RetroVertigo (RetroVertigo) … 8/23/05 – 485 – 0.33
The Mad Hermit (Deliverance) … 9/20/01 – 1,856 – 0.64
Posters
VarlosZ (Varlos’ Zzzzzzz) … 5/9/00 – 3,151 – 0.93
Hamlet (CuteWiddleBunny) … 2/4/00 – 5,678 – 1.63
furt (Fightin’ Quakers) … 4/30/99 – 6,182 – 1.64
Justin_Bailey (The Gusterrhoids) … 3/7/03 – 6,291 – 2.66
Spammers
Ellis Dee (New York Fanboys) … 7/28/03 – 5,968 – 2.69
dalej42 (Warner’s Brothers) … 2/21/04 – 5,726 – 2.84
SenorBeef (Exploding Pancakes) … 8/25/01 – 8,369 – 2.86
RNATB (9 Inch Neils) … 5/24/03 – 19,581 – 8.56
Or by join date:
Old Timers
furt (Fightin’ Quakers) … 4/30/99 – 6,182 – 1.64
Hamlet (CuteWiddleBunny) … 2/4/00 – 5,678 – 1.63
VarlosZ (Varlos’ Zzzzzzz) … 5/9/00 – 3,151 – 0.93
SenorBeef (Exploding Pancakes) … 8/25/01 – 8,369 – 2.86
Charter Members
Petey (Isotopes) … 9/16/01 – 268 – 0.09
The Mad Hermit (Deliverance) … 9/20/01 – 1,856 – 0.64
Stringer (We Do HGH) … 6/13/02 – 650 – 0.25
RNATB (9 Inch Neils) … 5/24/03 – 19,581 – 8.56
Noobs
Justin_Bailey (The Gusterrhoids) … 3/7/03 – 6,291 – 2.66
Ellis Dee (New York Fanboys) … 7/28/03 – 5,968 – 2.69
dalej42 (Warner’s Brothers) … 2/21/04 – 5,726 – 2.84
RetroVertigo (RetroVertigo) … 8/23/05 – 485 – 0.33
I don’t know that we can get everyone’s info in time without pestering, but if everyone could post their location when they get a chance I’d appreciate it.
New York, NY