Johnny Bench
Ivan Rodriguez
Gary Carter
Mike Piazza
Carlton Fisk
Bill Dickey
Mickey Cochrane
Yogi Berra
Joe Mauer
Josh Gibson
(Edited: Ack! Forgot Gibson!)
Johnny Bench
Yogi Berra
Mickey Cochrane
Gabby Hartnett
Josh Gibson
Roy Campanella
Mike Piazza
Carlton Fisk
Bill Dickey
Gary Carter
Johnny Bench
Josh Gibson
Gary Carter
Ivan Rodriguez
Bill Freehan
Mike Piazza
Roy Campanella
Yogi Berra
Bill Dickey
Mickey Cochrane
Me
So I went down the list and picked a bunch of knee-jerk inclusions - Bench, Berra, Campanella, Carter, Gibson, Piazza, Rodriguez. Then I added Fisk, who I’d skipped over the first time because my impression is he was just a hair behind Carter and basically contemporaneous with him. Joe Mauer got my vote among the active players and seems comparable with the other remaining choices.
That left the four (white) guys from the 20s & 30s, Buck Ewing, and Biz Mackey. Of the 20s/30s guys, all of them have similar OPS+s, Hartnett and Lombardi have the longest careers, and Lombardi’s record is tarnished a bit by playing during the war years in a weaker league. I settled on Hartnett though maybe I should have gone for Mackey.
So my ballot is:
Johnny Bench
Yogi Berra
Mike Piazza
Gary Carter
Ivan Rodriguez
Josh Gibson
Roy Campanella
Carlton Fisk
Joe Mauer
Gabby Hartnett
Nope. We’ll have a vote for multi position stars like him and Molitor later.
I somehow also forgot about Gary Carter, so I no longer have a major dilemma about the 10th spot (which goes to Simmons, clearly better than the other names I was bandying about).
Johnny Bench
Yogi Berra
Mike Piazza
Josh Gibson
Roy Campanella
Gary Carter
Carlton Fisk
Ivan Rodriguez
Mickey Cochrane
Ted Simmons
Johnny Bench
Josh Gibson
Gary Carter
Carlton Fisk
Ivan Rodriguez
Yogi Berra
Bill Dickey
Mike Piazza
Elston Howard
Ted Simmons
Johnny Bench
Josh Gibson
Roger Bresnahan
Gabby Hartnett
Carlton Fisk
Mike Piazza
Roy Campanella
Yogi Berra
Mickey Cochrane
Ted Simmons
Notes:
I had to find a way to bring Roger Bresnahan into this discussion. I know Bill James dislikes his selection - and offensively it’s an odd one - there’s more to it. Bresnahan was one of the first - possibly the very first - top level catcher to embrace and develop the traditional catcher’s gear. Chest protector, mask, shin guards, padded glove. If that’s not transforming your position in baseball, I don’t know what is.
I always thought Munson got a lot of ink and appreciation because of the way he died. In the end, he just wasn’t above being a pretty good ballplayer.
Campanella’s an interesting case. Only played in the majors for 10 years or so but holy cow, those are some 10 years. Came to the majors at 26 so he clearly could have had a few more productive years in the majors. Also retired at 35 after 2 years of drop off. Because of these he’s borderline for me.
As before, off the top of my head, and not ranked with the exception of Gibson:
[ol]
[li]Josh Gibson (if he’s in my top 15 of all time, he’s an easy add at such a tough position to make WAR as catcher.)[/li][li]Johnny Bench[/li][li]Carlton Fisk[/li][li]Mike Piazza[/li][li]Pudge Rodriguez[/li][li]Gary Carter[/li][li]Joe Mauer[/li][li]Yogi Berra[/li][li]Thurman Munson (mainly for the added stats to his career if he flew a little better. A Citation is a bit more ambitious for one year of flight experience than a 36 Bonanza, but hey, ballplayer.)[/li][li]Bob Boone (personal choice. I have an autographed ball from him, and I think he was unparalleled in his ability to frame pitches and call a game. Terrible offensively.)[/li][/ol]
I don’t know much at all about Dickey or Cochrane. Simmons is an interesting choice, but I don’t know much about him either. In fact, I don’t know a whole lot about many of the guys 11-20 on the career WAR list.
Hmm, interesting. Did you know that by WAR, Munson is ranked 12th all-time? If you remove the overrated, pre-integration catchers, he moves up to 9th place. If his career wasn’t cut short by death, he would have moved up the list even more.
But by all means include Bresnahan. He wore stuff.
Stuff is important. I was a kid before Steve Yeager introduced the dangly throat protector and took a foul tip right in the throat. I thought I was going to die. Really, I did.
Johnny Bench
Yogi Berra
Gary Carter
Roy Campanella
Carlton Fisk
Pudge
Gabby Hartnett
Josh Gibson
Steve Yeager
Mike Piazza
Barkis, I also looked to see if I could justify putting Sandy Alomar on here, as he was one of my childhood heroes. Unfortunately his numbers just fall way too short to make a top ten list of catchers, and a reasonable person wouldn’t rank him in the top 20, either. He had some very bright spots in his career, but wasn’t either offensively or defensively great for more than a few years at a time, with several lengthy droughts in production that you don’t want to see in a HoFer. His career may have stretched 20 years, but it was functionally over after leaving the Indians in 2000. Maybe when we redo this exercise in 20 years, he’ll be a candidate for a manager’s slot.
Johnny Bench
Gary Carter
Ivan Rodriguez
Carlton Fisk
Mike Piazza
Roy Campanella
Yogi Berra
Mickey Cochrane
Joe Mauer
Ted Simmons
If it weren’t for the fallback of the Negro League ballot, I would’ve put Gibson and maybe Mackey here somewhere. But who gets bumped then…? I like all my choices. So I punted.
For whatever it’s worth, I see Munson at 14th in career WAR among catchers.
Rk Name WAR▾
1 Johnny Bench HOF 75
2 Gary Carter HOF 69.9
3 Ivan Rodriguez 68.4
4 Carlton Fisk HOF 68.3
5 Yogi Berra HOF 59.5
6 Mike Piazza HOF 59.4
7 Bill Dickey HOF 55.8
8 Gabby Hartnett HOF 53.4
9 Mickey Cochrane HOF 52.1
10 Ted Simmons 50.1
11 Joe Mauer 50
12 Buck Ewing HOF 47.7
13 Gene Tenace 46.8
14 Thurman Munson 45.9
Johnny Bench
Josh Gibson
Ivan Rodriquez
Carlton Fisk
Yogi Berra
Gary Carter
Mike Piazza
Bill Dickey
Buck Ewing
Mickey Cochrane
Note to RickJay: swapping Joe Mauer in for Cochrane. Peak is a bit better, and Cochrane has no edge in longevity. I’ll miss the .419 OBP tho…
Johnny Bench
Yogi Berra
Mike Piazza
Josh Gibson
Roy Campanella
Gary Carter
Carlton Fisk
Ivan Rodriguez
Joe Mauer
Ted Simmons
I shall be away starting tonight, off to get married. Voting is open until next Tuesday.
Please encourage baseball fans you know to join and submit ballots!
If you’d like to change your ballot, like John just did, please make it clear it’s a replacement ballot, like he did. Ballots may be changed as much as you like up to the end of the voting round.
Congratulations!!
I’ll be doing just that, in a moment. Thank you!
Replacement ballot:
Johnny Bench
Josh Gibson
Gary Carter
Ivan Rodriguez
Carlton Fisk
Mike Piazza
Roy Campanella
Yogi Berra
Bill Dickey
Ted Simmons
Hey, congratulations! Much happiness to you and yours.
Johnny Bench
Josh Gibson
Gary Carter
Carlton Fisk
Mike Piazza
Roy Campanella
Yogi Berra
Bill Dickey
Mickey Cochrane
Ivan Rodriguez